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This is getting to be interesting. I don't personally think that passing a 
2 day exam makes a person more qualified. Remember Einstein did not even 
pass high school.

What takes to be a good structural engineer is at least a Masters degree in 
Structural Engineering from a well recognized school and at least five 
years of working experience in a structural office. You can not complete a 
dynamic analysis in a 4 hour session. You can not learn dynamic analysis by 
attending crash course tuned to help one pass an exam. It takes months of 
studying at a good university to understand how buildings actually behave 
under dynamic forces.

The point is, exams (especially multiple choice) are not true test. There 
should be minimum education requirements and it should be mandatory to take 
some critical courses in structural engineering.

I know a lot of engineers who hire me to help them in complicated 
structural problems. Some of them are SE.

Now, why not take the exam. There are two reasons.

One that you have to wait over three years before you qualify to sit in 

Two, most of the civil engineers do not want to design hospitals, police 
stations, bridges and buildings over 13 story. They want to design low rise 
structures, Tilt-up buildings, Wood frame homes. And their Civil license 
allows them to do that.

Shafat Qazi, P.E.

From: 	Ron Hamburger[SMTP:ROH(--nospam--at)]
Sent: 	Thursday, January 11, 1996 6:39 AM
To: 	SEAOC(--nospam--at)
Subject: 	BUST'M OR NOT

I have read with interest, the discussion over the last weeks on
whether a Civil Engineer who advertises himself as a Structural
Engineer should be reported to BORPELs for violation of the
Profession's Act.  As I replied, in private to the originator of this
thread, a believe they should be busted.  It is likely that the
indiviudals involved do not limit their mis-advertisement to the
yellow pages, a relatively minor and insignificant publication for
the advertisement of professional services, but indeed, advertise
themselves as SEs whenever asked.  As many of you may be aware, this
issue has been a subject of significant discussion over the last year
by the SEAOC Board of Directors.  This dicussion was triggered by a
BORPELs initiated rewrite of the Engineers Act that would
reclassified all engineers (mechanical, electrical, etc.) as
Professional Engineer.

SEAOC Policy, as developed by the Board of Directors, was highlighted
in a recent "Plan Review" article, included in the Section
newsletters.  It essentially noted the following points:

1- The proper design of buildings and structures is an issue critical
to the public safety and only Civil Engineers who are appropriately
qualified, as well as Structural Engineers should be permitted to do

2- It was noted by the Board that many Civil Engineers can and do
obtain registration without demonstrating any significant
understanding or knowledge of structural enigneering principles - by
responding to examination questions limited to sanitary engineering,
transportation engineering, soils engineering, etc.  It was
recommended by the Board that all engineers (this includes Civil and
Structural) should be required to demonstrate their qualifications
through an examination that tests knowledge of Structural
Engineering.  Such an exam could be the NCEE Structures I exam, the
current Western States Structural exam or an other document, yet to
be developed.

3-  It was acknolwedged that the State of California has recognized
for many years, the need to obtain better earthquake performance for
some classes of structures, notably schools and hospitals, than is
provided for by strict adherence to the requirements of the building
code.  SE registration is required by the State for such practice.
The Board strongly supported the continuation of this requirement and
also recommended extension of this requirement to the design of any
buidling for which enhanced earthquake performance is required.  (For
a definition of enhanced earthquake performance - refer to the Vision
2000 document - recently published by SEAOC).

4-The registration seal for engineers qualified to practice
structural engineering (or civil engineering of structures) should
include designation of this qualification.

In the Interim, BORPELs has dropped immediate plans to rewrite the
act.  There was too much opposition from SEAOC and others.  The Board
is now considering lobbying to obtain a separate registration act for
Civil and Structural Engineers, that would incorporate these basic

Going back to my basic suggestion of bust'm.  There is no excuse for
an engineer who regularly practices structural engineering, and
believes himself to be competent in this area, not to sit for the
Structural Exam.  Practicing engineers owe it to themselves and the
profession to maintain our professional standards at a high level.
If an engineer can not pass the SE exam, they probably do not have
the basic skills required to act in repsonsibile charge of
structures.  It is not that hard to do.  Nearly 4,000 engineers in
California have done so to date.  Join the club.Ronald O. Hamburger, SE
Regional Manager
EQE International, Inc.
San Francisco, California

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