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Fwd: Re: American Engineers have it good?[Subject Prev][Subject Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
- To: wai(--nospam--at)euken.com
- Subject: Fwd: Re: American Engineers have it good?
- From: rlewis(--nospam--at)techteam.org (Richard Lewis)
- Date: 07 Aug 1997 12:39:46 GMT
Terry, First - Circle, Champaign or Navy Pier? I spent three years at Circle = Campus. I see you got a little testy in your remarks. BTW I happen to be a = pretty happy guy until someone comes along to upset the cart with = unrealistic figures. The truth is that you don't have a true = representation of what exists for engineers who CHOOSE to design for = residential, commercial and light Industry. I believe if you dig enough, = you will find that the 1000 firms polled in your study are primarily = larger firms with very diverse abilities - not sole proprietorship. Not = that it is bad. It's just not a realistic look at the working class in = structural engineering. Why would the magic number of $60,000.00 make me happy. Personally I am = very happy right now in what I do. I make enough to pay my bills. I have = established myself in my profession and in my community and live a very = comfortable life for less than $35,000.00 per year. My front door opens = to the mountains and desert (literally) and I live in a safe community = of 11,000 people - with golf courses. Happiness is not the issue - unsolicited lectures that consider your = readers to be sniveling, complaining children is the problem. You start = with no facts, then quote NSPE which is easily dispelled since it = represents all practicing engineers in all fields of engineering as well = as non-licensed engineers. Then when challenged you switch to quoting ASCE which I would believe to = be skewed simply by the ratio of SE members compared to organizations = that give a truer reprentation such as SEAOC or CASE. ASCE includes = students, wastewater, geotechnical, bridge, infrastructure etc.=20 I will concede that if my interest were in these area's then I could = conceivably find work at $60k per year. "I take it that you're working mostly for architects. They're worse than attorneys! You get paid, maybe, while they treat you like some second = class citizen. Honestly ask yourself, "is there really an unmet need of = structural engineers in the residential building market?" Don't take offense, but you're nothing more than a hired gun to come in and smoke your = calculator for several hours for little pay. Why so little pay? Because calculator smokers are a dime a dozen. A need that has been over met, driving the = price of your services down, down, down. You're right, there's plenty = more overseas making the supply even worse." Talk about taking a shot at an industry. The answer is yes. If you spend = more time on the List you might see that there is a concern for public = safety in the residential market. As codes change to protect the public, = only engineers will be able to design ecconomically and safely. No = longer is life safety an issue, but engineers must be concerned with = designing for the least potential for damage. As you admit, you = certainly don't know much about structural engineering - even your = magazine is geared away from this area of study (probably the reason it = doesn't get too much attention in my office).=20 This is one of those times that I feel like getting on Bill Allens = bandwagon so that I can get my SE simply to disassociate myself from the = CE profession that you seem to be spokesman for. If you think that it is beneath an engineers ability to provide = reasonable and ethically needed services in the private sector than I = recommend you gladly save yourself a few pennies and remove me from your = mailing list, CE News gets recycled each month anyway. Who designed your = home, Terry. Did you trust a contractor to build it by "conventional" = standards, or possiby an Architect that you trusted to design all of the = connections or maybe you did it without your structural ability but with = your CE in hand. There many not be much money in the private sector, but there is a great = need for qualified engineers to provide a service to the community in = order to help the public live and work in safe buildings that can be = purchased at reasonable prices.=20 "I don't know the structural engineering world very well or I would make = some suggestions." You certainly don't - the majority of us work for the "bottom feeders". = We may have a gripe with their legal right to cross the line and stamp = off engineering work, but most of the Architects that I deal with are = the same as I. They are in private practice ranging in size from one man = offices to many thousands of employees. They are the creative element = that provides the challenges that necessitate our special talents. We = analyze the work we do for creative way to resolve a problem at the = least cost to the client. This is what good engineering is about. There = is a lot more to Structural Engineering that crunching a few numbers. = There is pride in this business that you consider "bottom feeders" and = most of all, it's honest work for honest pay. "It's not surprising that my comment struck a nerve with you. You are = just the type of person it was directed to. If you recall, I wrote, "We act = as if we are entitled to prosperity and that job satisfaction, including fat salaries, should (or ought to) be guaranteed to us. If we don't get = that, we want to hold someone else accountable for our disappointments." YOU, = Dennis, are holding someone else accountable for your problems and YOU = are typical of the many Americans that have adopted the philosophy of = victimology. Indeed, the engineering market is oversupplied and you can = complain about it and know in your heart that your right. But you're = going to be unemployed right." No, Terry, we are not the victims, you just needed a soap box to spread = your unsolicited opinions. You have thousands of readers. Those who make = ends meet above $60,000 will support you to their unemployment, those = that make less will resent every word you "preach". I will never be = unemployed because as many misinformed engineers move to those visions = of bluer sky's that you paint, the bottom feeders will need my services = more than ever and at my price. As you suggest, "Identify any unmet = needs. Fulfill those needs." - I believe I just have. Security comes = from within not from the dreams you're peddling or any employer. I have = attained my security as well as my contentment. It's just that I am not = willing to forget my peers that haven't reached this point yet. They = need to find peace from their efforts What they don't need in these = times is an inconsiderate solicitation from an engineer that makes his = honest living collecting advertising money and thinking that he is a = self-proclaimed barometer of the engineering working class. BTW, I was serious, please remove my name from your magazine and save = yourself some money. I have one philosophy (like yours) that works: I = refuse to keep my mouth shut to debate any good cause and I try not be = hypocritical in my passions. Maybe if you think about that for a while I = may make some sense to you. Respectfully, Dennis S. Wish PE =20 --- Internet Message Header Follows --- Received: from server1.seaoc.org (bqe.com [188.8.131.52]) by host1.texramp.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA05100 for <rlewis(--nospam--at)techteam.org>; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:25:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from key.cyberg8t.com by server1.seaoc.org (NTList 3.02.13) id ca018436; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:55:31 -0700 Received: from pdhost15.cyberg8t.com (pdhost27.cyberg8t.com [184.108.40.206]) by key.cyberg8t.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA15499; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pdhost15.cyberg8t.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC4A97.54ED82A0(--nospam--at)pdhost15.cyberg8t.com>; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:52:28 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC4A97.54ED82A0(--nospam--at)pdhost15.cyberg8t.com> From: "Dennis S. Wish PE" <wish(--nospam--at)cyberg8t.com> To: "'tgstring(--nospam--at)mindspring.com'" <tgstring(--nospam--at)mindspring.com> Cc: "'seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org'" <seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org> Subject: RE: American Engineers have it good? Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:50:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org Error-To: seaoc-ad(--nospam--at)seaoc.org X-Loop: seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org X-Info: [SEAOC] Owner: seaoc-ad(--nospam--at)seaoc.org X-POP3-Rcpt: seaoc-ad(--nospam--at)seaoc.org X-Sender: seaoc-ad(--nospam--at)seaoc.org Precedence: list X-ListMember: rlewis(--nospam--at)techteam.org [seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org] __________________________________________________ Richard Lewis, P.E. Missionary TECH Team rlewis(--nospam--at)techteam.org The service mission like-minded Christian organizations may turn to for technical assistance and know-how.
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