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Re: FEE Survey (Reply to R Marmaduke's Insurance Post)

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I posted a question some time ago about this same topic.  It went something
like has anyone else out there been able to secure general liability
insurance and not have E&O insurance.  The response I got was the same as
you concluded (ie. not
possible to get general without E&O) or that we were doing something
unethical in not having E&O insurance.  

Well I went and did some more research for those that might be interested. 
To get a million dollars of E&O insurance would cost between $10,000 and
$16,000.  This represents between 5 and 8 percent of our very small firm's
(2 full time employees, sometimes some low level temp employees) gross
receipts.  This was not doable.  So I sent my local insurance agent
to see if he could find general liability insurance.  Note that insurance
agents that specialized in dealing with engineers and architects like
Dealey Renton had told us that such a thing did not exist.  But our
neighborhood broker found a policy through a company called Crusader
Insurance Company.  We got an office police covering our property and
general liability.  It cost quite a bit more than our last general
liability policy, but still quite a bit less thanthe E&O Insurance.  It
will remain to be seen if the policy gets renewed next year (no general
liability policy in the last 8 years or so has been renewed after one

Hope this is of interest.

Tom Schaniel

> From: r marmaduke <avi(--nospam--at)>
> To: seaoc(--nospam--at)
> Subject: Re: FEE Survey
> Date: Thursday, August 21, 1997 4:06 PM
> Bill:
> Well, you might get some help from one department, and an unlikely one.
> We reorganized two years ago and started a new engineering corporation.
> Our insurance broker of six years called and said, "Gee, there's been
> litigation, and now the underwriters won't write a general liability for
> an engineer without them also having E&O." Not believing him, and
> feedback from many colleagues either not buying E&O or getting $2MM for
> under $10,000, I went online and conducted a national search.
> Bottom line, no E&O, then you don't get general liability. And as we all
> know, without general liability, you might as well shoot your foot now.
> Since nobody else in our area carries E&O, (and does most of their work
> with non-professionals to keep their costs down) that was it for me.
> So you might find the curve is rising a bit after a 'nother couple years.
> (And a fair warning to those seeking to reorganize their practice!!!)
> Regards,
> Robert Marmaduke PE
> POB 28995, Bellingham, WA 98228
> 360.738.0854 VOX/FAX
> avi(--nospam--at)