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RE: BORPELS and residential room additions

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I disagree with Bill Allen.  The enemy is us.  When we don't define what 
constitutes adequate engineering, we leave the door open for BORPELS and 
the weasels it uses as consultants to define the scope for us.

I also disagree with Lew.  Why should that engineer "fry" just so we can 
get rich?  Wouldn't a much more professional response be to collect 
signatures of professional SE's on a document protesting the BORPELS 
action.  Negligence is defined as performing professional services in a 
manner that is inconsistent with the "custom and practice" as define by the 
peers of the professional in question.

If you guys don't think that BORPELS actions are consistent with that 
definition, take some action.  Don't let your fellow professional swing in 
the wind!

-----Original Message-----
From:	Bill Allen, S.E. @ ALLEN DESIGNS [SMTP:BAllenSE(--nospam--at)pacbell.net]
Sent:	Friday, September 12, 1997 3:12 PM
To:	seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org
Subject:	Re: BORPELS and residential room additions

This is totally rediculous. It appears that the engineer applied the
"standard of care" typical for this type of project. I think this incident
has identified the enemy and the enemy is BORPELS. After all, it is BORPELS
who makes us compete with architects, civil-civils with inadequate
experience and other unlicensed persons thereby forcing us to to reduce our
fees (and effort) to match those who don't have a clue of what is required
to do a proper job. BORPELS seems very willing to punish those of us who
are trying to compete in this market but are quite unwilling to eliminate
those who are technically unqualified to practice structural engineering.
This is another example of how the risk to reward ratio is extremely
unbalanced for the structural engineering profession. I think that, if
BORPELS continue to take this kind of action without tightening up who can
practice structural engineering, it's time for me to get out.

Regards,
Bill Allen

----------
> From: HARRISENGR(--nospam--at)aol.com
> To: seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org
> Subject: BORPELS and residential room additions
> Date: Thursday, September 11, 1997 8:20 PM
>
>      I have been asked by a civil engineer in another county to comment
on
> his structural engineering for a 500 SQ. FT. room addition he calc'ed in
> 1987.
>      There was a complaint ( but no failure type problem ) and BORPELS
asked
> one of their technical consultants, who also does litigation work, to
> comment. The expert SE said the civil engineer should have investigated
the
> site, tested the concrete, obtained a soil report, as well as performed
> structural observation , and since he did not the civil engineer is (
1997 )
> incompetent and BORPELS has offered to settle by allowing the civil
engineer
> to give up his license for 4 years.
>      It was a calc and sketch job for  $450.00 and the were 37 pages of
calcs
> and sketches.
>      I have probably plan checked 3000 room additions, and these calcs
were
> above average . I am shocked by what the BORPELS consultant recommends.
If i
> did everything he is criticising i would have to charge $3500.00 plus
another
> $2000.00 for a soil report and $750. for a concrete testing lab, all for
a
> calc and sketch job on a 500 sq. ft. room addition!
>       Am i in left field or do others calc and sketch without a soil
report (
> use 1000psf ), not visiting the site ( assume it was built to code ) ,
and
> forego structural observation on small room additions.
>      I would like to know what others include as minimum services for a
> residential room addition.
>
>
>      Thanks in advance.
>
>
>      Tom Harris , SE
>      Thousand Oaks, CA
>
>



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