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Re: Error in Phone Book - Structural Engineers

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S P Singh wrote:

> Couple of questions just out of curiosity:
>
> What are the engineers with Civil Engineering degree called if they do
>
> not have P.E?
>

They are not engineers until they pass the exam and receive a license
and number.

They are engineers in training, apprentice, trainees, students, or
technicians.

> If they can still be referred to as Civil Engineers,

they can't


> what should we call
> the engineers with M.S. or Ph.D. in Structural Engineering who do not
> have S.E.?

Well educated apprentice, trainees, students, or technicians.



> I understand that BORPELS would not allow them to use the
> title Structural Engineer.  These engineers may have spent more than
> five years on Structural Engineering courses and research and may have
>
> only taken three semester of courses in Civil Engineering (other than
> Structural).
>
> Regards,
> Satinder P. Singh
> S. P. Singh Engineers
>
> Dennis S. Wish PE wrote:
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:   Brian Kehoe [SMTP:BEK(--nospam--at)wje.com]
> > Sent:   Monday, September 29, 1997 9:04 AM
> > To:     seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org
> > Subject:        Re: Error in Phone Book - Structural Engineers
> >
> > Dennis,
> >
> > Your mistake was using the term Structural Engineering to the
> > phone company personnel
> > during the contact.  How can you expect a lay person to
> > understand to subtlety between
> > someone practicing structural engineering and someone who is a
> > licensed Structural
> > Engineer?  Instead, you should just call yourself a Civil
> > Engineer, since that is how you are
> > licensed.  Using the term structural engineering is, IMHO
> > deliberately misleading.
> >
> > If you don't like being only licensed as a civil engineer, then
> > take the test or get BORPELS
> > to change the rules.
> >
> > ------------------->
> > Brian Kehoe
> > BEK(--nospam--at)WJE.COM
> >
> > Using your logic, then I am equally misleading the public since
> > I am not qualified to design roadways, bridges etc based upon my
> > lack of experience in this area. Why not simply erase us from
> >  the face of the earth since those that gave us the title can't
> > decide which niche we belong.
> > Please explain to me how the term structural engineering is
> > misleading. Please also explain to me why I do not have the
> > authority to use the term structural engineering when you and I
> > are equally qualified and licensed to design structures  other
> > than essential facilities and high-rises.
> > The public does not need to understand the subtleties between
> > structural engineering and Structural Engineer since those that
> > would require a SE would already understand the difference. The
> > other 99% who could use a qualified CE are the ones that need
> > the explanation.
> > Also, please explain to me what regulations require me to take
> > the SE exam in order to design custom homes, commercial
> > properties, foundations etc. I never knew that this was a
> > requirement attached to my CE license.
> > I do agree with one thing you said. If you don't want me
> > practicing structural engineering get BORPELS to change their
> > rules.
> > Sorry to sound so offensive, but life is not all black and white
> > - we live in the gray area. If you think that this is a problem
> > I would much rather debate your issues against my practicing
> > structural engineering using intelligent arguments rather than
> > subtleties twisted around to support weak arguments.
> > Why not try to resolve the problem by working to get BORPELS to
> > redefine who is allowed to practice structural engineering. If,
> > as the majority of the community feels,  the problem is ridding
> > the profession of those not qualified to practice, then the
> > simplest solution is to redefine the title without the cost to
> > educate the public.
> > Brian, I doubt that you have an issue with my qualifications to
> > design all but essential facilities and high-rise structures.
> > Over 40% of the SEA members are CE's who specialize in
> > structural engineering. The only misconception is the title, not
> > the authority to practice. But, I do agree with you if the issue
> > is the CE that crosses the line to practice outside of his
> > knowledge.
> > Dennis Wish PE
> >
>