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RE: CE licensing a different problem

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-----Original Message-----
From:	Lew Midlam [SMTP:Lew.Midlam(--nospam--at)]
Sent:	Saturday, October 04, 1997 5:26 AM
To:	seaoc(--nospam--at)
Subject:	Re: CE licensing a different problem

Regarding 'plan stamping' and experience requirements:

What Dennis decribed is illegal in most states.

I have contacted BORPELS on this issue in the past. I had hired 
another engineer (in this case licensed) to prepare the design 
and analysis of a project for me. He did not work within my 
office, but I was responsible to review his work and stamp it 
off for submittal. I was, however, completely familiar with the 
project and discussed the project with the other PE to determine 
the best design approach.
BORPELS told me that this was legal and that the plans or design 
do not need to be done in my office for me to take 
responsibility for them.
Consider also, the architect that wishes to produce his own 
framing plans in his own office, email them to the engineer for 
review and red-lining and have the engineer stamp the plans. 
Virtual offices are becoming more and more common and the 
engineer is not often at the same site the work is being 
BORPELS must have considered this in their response to me. 
 Possibly other states have different requirements but whatever 
method is accepted, the engineer must be familiar with the 
project and in control of the final design.

This raises another good questions. Codes and laws must be 
maintained to stay abreast of technology and professional 
trends. When these restrictive laws were written no one 
conceived of the day that we would be working in satellite or 
virtual offices. This may be another law that needs to be 
changed to keep in step with the times.

As for an engineer gaining experience for the P.E. exam,  again 
requirements vary from state to state.  One state in particular 
that the 4 years of experience after college graduation be 
under the 'direct' supervision of a P.E.  In that state the 
must be obtained under a P.E. who has hire/fire authority over 
intern engineer, or the P.E. and the intern work for the same 
who has hire/fire authority over both of them.

I personnaly know of a very talented engineering intern who had 
for a county agency for 6 years as the only engineer in the 
agency.  He
did most of the engineering, and hired consultants to help him 
when he
needed it.  When he applied to take the P.E. exam he was told 
'none' of
the 6 years could be counted as experience because his boss was 
not a
P.E.   The county agency wanted the intern to get his license so 
offered to hire me as a consultant to be his mentor, but the 
state said
'No way.  The P.E. has to have hire/fire authority over the 
intern".  In
the end, this very talented engineer had to take a 4 year
'leave-of-absence' from his county job and I hired him as a 
employee so he could gain the required experience.

I would agree with this. This is the reason I suggested that he 
contact his local licensing agency to see if he can be evaluated 
by a review committee to determine whether or not he can take 
the exam.
A local engineer out here took the exam last year and past. He 
could not have taken the exam if it were not for SEAOSC who had 
the engineer come to LA and sit before a committee or group of 
engineers who evaluated his qualifications. He was allowed to 
take the exam.
I also believe that BORPELS has a requirement that states that 
an SE can provide a reference based upon evaluation of the 
applicants work. I believe this is intended to allow an 
applicant to take the exam who does not have the required number 
of professionals practicing in his area.

Dennis Wish PE