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Re: Via con dios, mi amigos

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-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Turk <73527.1356(--nospam--at)>
To: seaoc(--nospam--at) <seaoc(--nospam--at)>
Date: Wednesday, November 12, 1997 10:51 AM
Subject: Via con dios, mi amigos

>This must be another joke by Bill Allen!
>Let's see:     DOS!  ;-)
>A. Roger Turk, P.E.(Structural)
>Tucson, Arizona

No, I know Bill is serious on this one - however misdirected. It is very
easy to burn out on debates and politics - I've done it recently.
I urge Bill to reconsider for a number of reasons. First, change never
occurs overnight. If you think it can, you do need to take a break.
Admittedly, I'm one of those old hippies that ran through the pepper gas and
National Guard on campus in 1969 who thought that change must be forced to
occur instantly.
However, I think it was Abbey Hoffman that clearly showed that to make real
change, you must infiltrate your way into the organization and work outward.
Never has this been truer than here. We can't expect change unless we
continue the dialoge.
I believe that we are being heard - just not considered serious as yet. As
our list and active voices grow, our sincerety will become a test for those
in power. At some point, you can not ignore the majority.
How many members of SEA organizations vote for board members based upon
issues that they support. I don't. I see a name I recognize, someone I've
maybe met and liked and cast my ballot. If one of the members of this list
decided to run, I would have a much better indication of that persons
passions and goals by reading his responses to posted questions.
I know that I have far more respect for board members such as Tom Harris
because his opinions are on the record. Recently Bill Warren ( a new board
member I was not aware of) started to participate in the discussions on
Seminars. Now I have another member of this list that I can not simply
watch, but communicate with.
So, Bill, I think it is a shame that you would consider dropping out (I did
this too in the 70's and dropped back in around 1982) because change has not
happened overnight.
So what about me and Online? I've just dropped into a new journal is simply
the jist of it. I would not unsubscribe from this list, because of I firmly
believe that this is the most powerful tool we currently posses and also
because I need the help of my fellow engineers when a problem arises.
I won't give up the ship, I'll simply take a new direction in my efforts.
As far as resigning from SEAOSC, I am not sure how I feel. There are
certainly other organizations that can benifit from Bill or myself.  I would
have to give this some thought, I know it has been on my mind recently.
Fortunately, you do not need to be a member in any organization to be on
this list. Possibly for this reason I'll stay a member of SEAOSC.
Convoluted, but rational once you think about it.

Dennis Wish PE