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Re: Disaster dilemma

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What about the SE who was a great test taker, but a terrible engineer - who
is protecting the public's intrest now?
Dennis Wish PE

-----Original Message-----
From: Serroels, Chris/SAC <CSerroel(--nospam--at)CH2M.com>
To: seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org <seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org>
Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 11:55 AM
Subject: RE: Disaster dilemma


>I should of known better than to touch the architect vs. engineer
>debate.  I would only like to see every available and qualified
>resource utilized after an eq.  I'm not trying to suggest that
>anyone who isn't truly qualified perform these evaluations.
>I don't know if architects are qualified. I have never worked
>with an architect.
>
>If you don't think that architects are qualified then fine, you have
>answered my question.  Why stop there?  I know a whole
>lot of registered civils who don't belong out on these inspections.
>They might be able to tell us which way the water is going to
>flow out of a broken pipe network though.
>
>Let's just limit these inspections to SE's.  That way won't have
>to worry about unqualified people performing these inspections.
>That way we can completely ensure the safety of our residents,
>right?
>
>Chris Serroels, CE
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bill Allen,S.E. [SMTP:BAllenSE(--nospam--at)pacbell.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 4:42 PM
>> To: seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org
>> Subject: Re: Disaster dilemma
>>
>>
>> Serroels, Chris/SAC wrote:
>> How many architects have assisted in post-eq inspections
>> in the past? If they are left out of the equation, are there
>> enough building officials, civil engineers, and structural
>> engineers to get the first pass inspections done in a
>> timely manner.
>> Fine, then let's use contractors and real estate agents as well.
>>
>> Do we really feel that they are not competent to make
>> the assessments. If they receive the rapid evaluation
>> training (ATC20) they should be able to make
>> appropriate assessments.
>> I dunno. I've been working with architects for eleven years now.While
>> I do feel they are expert in a lot of areas, none have demonstrated
>> to me that they had any level of structural expertise.
>> To be fair to the architects,
>> we send a lot of young engineers out on these inspections
>> (present company included).
>> If you weren't qualified, you shouldn't have accepted the assignment
>> either.
>> Keep in mind that, when the Northridge E/Q occurred, everyone in So
>> Cal
>> was light on work (to put it mildly). Everybody and their brother
>> jumped on
>> the E/Q inspection bandwagon.
>> When I went out on Northridge
>> it was a very intimidating experience. I was a pretty young
>> engineer and my partner was in the same boat. What
>> experience we did have was in bridge design. I feel that
>> we made prudent decisions, but having an more experienced
>> engineer on the team would of been extremely beneficial.
>> Let's not sell displaced homeowners short by making
>> them wait longer than they need to reoccupy their homes
>> just because we have a grudge with architects.
>> Nor should we give them a false sense of security that an inspection
>> hasbeen done by a competent person when in fact this may not be true.
>> Regards,
>> Bill Allen
>>
>> As a side note, I wonder if it would be possible to pair up
>> inspection teams so that if there is an inexperienced engineer
>> or architect that they go out with an experienced civil or
>> structural
>> engineer. I know that after an eq there is a fair amount of
>> disarray no matter how good the planning, so logistically this
>> may be hard to implement. Nevertheless, it may be something
>> to consider.
>> Chris
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Bill Allen,S.E. [SMTP:BAllenSE(--nospam--at)pacbell.net]
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 1:46 PM
>> > To: seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org
>> > Subject: Re: Disaster dilemma
>> >
>> > Hey! It's our own damn fault by letting ICBO and BORPELS get
>> away with
>> > giving
>> > the architect the same level of competency in structural
>> engineering.
>> > If you
>> > don't like the way things are - complain to them!!
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Bill Allen
>> >
>> > Tom Chiu wrote:
>> >
>> > > What! Architects to inspect damaged buildings, you must be
>> kidding.
>> > > No wonder, the green tags were changed to red tags, after
>> the
>> > engineers
>> > > went inside the buildings. You see, the architects were too
>> busy
>> > > looking at the exterior of the buildings, checking out
>> curtain
>> > walls,
>> > > carpeting etc.
>> > >
>> > > Tom Chiu, SE
>> > > Thomas Engineering
>> > >
>> > > > >-----Original Message-----
>> > > > >From: Richard_Ranous/OES(--nospam--at)oes.ca.gov
>> > [SMTP:Richard_Ranous/OES(--nospam--at)oes.ca.gov]
>> > > > >Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 9:49 AM
>> > > > >To: seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org
>> > > > >Subject: Re: Disaster dilema
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >We should be able to handle most any request for
>> assistance in
>> > safety
>> > > > >assessment. We have close to 6,000 individuals
>> registered
>> > between SEAOC,
>> > > > >AIA, ACIA, ASCE, and CALBO. For Northridge we used 600
>> plus
>> > around 200
>> > > > >from the Army Corps of Engineers.
>>
>>
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