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Re: Disaster dilemma

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Sorry Frank, but if you feel that the use of the list is simpy to stand on a
soap box and vocalize, you have condemned thousands of engineers from doing
more than pissing into the wind. Sorry about my vernacular, but many of the
list members are not of equal means - with employers who pay for our time
off, offer travel expense and living subsidies to attend meetings and
conventions. Many of us are up to our neck in work to feed our families and
put a roof over our heads.
It's very unfair to judge the quaility of one's involvment by physical
presence in a time where a new invention such as the list provides a means
for those who can not physically attend and still have an opinion. So you
negate any professional who can't stand in front of your face and say the
same words that he can write on the net.
Bill Allen was being cynical for just this reason. It's the same as needing
a reader for a book because your too blind to read it yourself.
The rhetoric makes sense, not the expense to do it in person. If those that
weigh the needs of the community can't evaluate a letter, post, or other
forms of written communication, we have no hope.
Sure, personal visits might be nice, but for many, it's not practical.
Finally, if SEA, NCSEA, ASCE, CELSOC and the other professional
organizations can only meet the needs of those that attend the meetings and
dinners, they don't need my support since I no longer have a voice.
Dennis Wish PE
-----Original Message-----
From: FLew98 <FLew98(--nospam--at)>
To: seaoc(--nospam--at) <seaoc(--nospam--at)>
Date: Saturday, January 24, 1998 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Disaster dilemma

>In a message dated 98-01-24 14:20:52 EST, Bill Warren wrote:
>> Those advising to "GET INVOLVED" do request more of you, and
>> more of us all....   maintaining our profession is hard work, yes,
>> Dennis you have to do more, as well as all of us.
>Well said, Bill!  But you let some folks off too easily.  Even those who
>'geographically impaired' need to make some effort to participate in person
>committees and other professional forums and events.
>Teleconferencing, e-mail and the Net may someday produce a new paradigm for
>group participation and committee work.  But at least for now, that
>is just too cumbersome to use to arrive at decisions/consensus, and to
>deliverables and products that have wide acceptance by standards
>organizations, government agencies and law and policy makers.
>means more than getting on a soapbox and orating.  That's easy, especially
>this cyberspace era, but as Bill Allen noted in an earlier posting on this
>thread, "Well, this has been another productive thread. What have we
>accomplished?".  The answer is, very little.  Participation requires some
>sacrifices in time, energy, and sometimes $$ in out-of-pocket expenses and
>lost fee opportunities.  And just paying dues to professional organizations
>isn't enough.  That's akin to checkbook philanthropy, which is great but
>enough.  Organizations, whether charitable or professional, do need the
>financial support, but just as importantly, they benefit immensely from the
>time contributions and actual involvement of donors.  And the donors
>much more, too.
>Frank Lew, SE
>Orinda, CA