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Re: totally inappropriate... (Damn right)

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Thirty Million Dollars could have bought Twenty Million Computers and enough
services to link every school and university into the Internet and advance
education as it should. Thirty Million dollars could provide ecconomic
assistance for the inner city, for the low income families that want homes
of their own. Thirty Million dollars could have compensated the rise of
minimum wage since it would not have come out of our pocket initially or
could have provided additional tax breaks to business to insure a higher
wage for their employees.
I agree with Bill, now we can see where the waste comes from!
What a waste of money and manpower.

-----Original Message-----
From: BCainse <BCainse(--nospam--at)>
To: seaoc(--nospam--at) <seaoc(--nospam--at)>
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: totally inappropriate... (Damn right)

>In a message dated 98-01-28 13:10:58 EST, Christopher Wright wrote:
><< The main point is whether he's committed an impeachable crime, namely
> he in fact obstruct justice by telling what's-'er-name to lie under oath.
> If she really did lie under oath. If not telling the truth about one's
> personal life were a crime, there'd be no one outside prison minding the
> store. All the Presidents in modern times told whoppers, 'forgot' things,
> or left their hearing aids on the night table. Do we think less of
> Eisenhower's character when he denied the U-2 shoot-down or George Bush
> when he claimed he was out of the loop?
> There's a real world out there--I don't like parts of it, but it isn't
> going away. The people we work for don't tell us the truth; others lie
> under oath and still others boink their colleagues, employees or
> neighbors and deny it. Hell, I hear some engineers even stamp other
> peoples' drawings. We're never going to resolve America's love of
> salacious gossip and the prudish streak that gave us prohibition. Let's
> concentrate on our own moral dilemmas and get back to engineering. >>
>[Bill Cain]  Having served on the "other side" as an elected official in
>separate areas on the local level (former City Council Member and current
>member of the local Board of Education) I have had the opportunity to
>other elected officials from a unique perspective.  I have observed those
>high moral standards and those with low.  I frankly have seen little
>correlation between moral standards and effectiveness.  The key thing seems
>be if the public believes the official is taking care of their interests
>issues (and that evaluation doesn't take a rocket scientist when the
>and issues are usually economic (what taxes they (the public) are charged
>what services they get) and not who is screwing who.  That is reality. The
>public seems to want results, not angels.
>The obscene abuse to me is what a Special Prosecutor is doing spending
>millions and three years investigating a failed $250,000 land deal with NO
>PRODUCT (Expense to cost ratio=120:1, Benefit to Cost Ratio=ZERO) then
>expanding an investigation to who got into who's pants or who was in the
>Office" or what either person told the other person.  From this mornings
>polls, it appears the American people don't care about about those issues.
>They just want their "goodies" and feel they got them in the "State of the
>Union" speech.
>Why don't we just accept that people may screw or get a blow job and really
>don't want to tell the world they did, get on with life and spend the money
>educating our kids rather than Special Prosecutors.  The $30 million or so
>spent to date could have paid the yearly salary and benefits for another
>teachers or built the state of the art high school for 1000 students my
>community needs to replace a seismically deficient one built in 1933. From
>the sidebars in the newspapers over the past week, it appears that most
>President has done something "unseemly" (and that is from both sides of the
>political spectrum).  After all they are (were) all human although I guess
>could argue about the one that resigned [although to his credit, he left
>positive legacies too].
>One thing that has never made sense to me is charging a subsidiary action
>(perjury or suborning perjury, conspiracy, etc.) as being worse than the
>to which it relates.  It didn't make sense during the demonstrations about
>Vietnam War and it doesn't make sense now.
>As for the appropriateness of this thread on the listserver, I think it
>us a chance to celebrate the ethics that most structural engineers hold.
>survey I saw said that engineers, in general,  are held in high regard by
>public and people tend to believe us much more than say lawyers or
>(So I guess that makes me only half believable  :<O  ).   From my
>participation in the list, I have seen some outstanding examples of people
>trying to do what's right.   Having a discussion of this type shows our
>community (those on the listserver) are multi-dimensional and diverse. It
>helps us to explore our ethical foundations and to understand one another a
>little better as people.  It also is theraputic to vent to friends!
>Sorry for rambling!
>Bill Cain, SE
>Albany, CA
FN:Dennis S. Wish