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Re: Re: Registration

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At 02:17 PM 1/29/98 -0800, you wrote:
>California is the same. Your PE exam is simply our CE exam (it would appear)
>and our SE exam can only be taked after the CE with a number of years
>practical experience and three signitures from SE's familiar with our work.
>As I understand the future, if we move to a national exam through the NCEES
>then their will no longer be a state issued CE exam. It will be replaced
>with the SEI exam. SEII will be dependent upon the state. In other words if
>an engineer desires an SEII license (in California), he must take the SE
>exam that was written by SEAOC.

        C. Greenlaw Reply:   It is premature to "understand the future" with
respect to what the Calif Board might do with respect to CE and SE exams.
There have been three Board sub-committee meetings to date on this subject,
the most recent being this morning. I attended the 1st and 3rd, and read
minutes and handouts from the 2nd. Nothing is remotely settled; facts and
opinions are still being heard. Today two members of the Nevada Board, one a
SE, spoke on the NCEES Structural Exams from positions of intimate
familiarity. With candor and sincerity rare in this Board's conference room,
they spoke of continuing controversy as to whether either of the two NCEES
Exams should be used as "mastery" exams or merely as "minimum competency"
exams. The role of these exams outside California was said to differ
substantially among the states using them, and the exams are actively
evolving under the various influences and desires. 

        Something a little more clear is that "written by SEAOC" is no
longer a description that the Calif Board can abide.  As of 1998, the SE
exam is under new, non-SEAOC management even though individual SEAOC members
are still  participating.  

>From my understanding, the SE designation in California originated after the
>1971 Sylmar earthquake.

        C. G. Reply:  The SE title, among others, was in use before
California registered engineers, but was brought under the state board's
control in 1931, as the second branch-name title (after CE in 1929) that the
Board recognized. It was then and now a follow-on specialty title, not a
separate area of practice, and one had to be a CE already as a prerequisite.
CE practice includes structural practice in California's scheme.  

> In order to insure the quality of designs for
>buildings considered essential or high risk, California decided that an
>engineer must pass an additional exam that would designate him a specialist
>who would then be recognized to design and work on buildings such as schools
>and hospitals. The building that launched this act was the damaged Oliveview
>Hospital (spelling?) building. This predates my time in California so I only
>know what I have read about it.
>Finally, it would be up the each state to adopt a national standard. This
>would take some time to occur. However, if each state adopted the standard,
>engineers would have an easier time of working in other states since the
>licensing standards would be the same.
>Dennis Wish PE
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Richard Lewis <rlewis(--nospam--at)>
>To: seaoc(--nospam--at) <seaoc(--nospam--at)>
>Date: Thursday, January 29, 1998 1:19 PM
>Subject: Re: Re: Registration
>>It is my understanding it is up to the individual states whether to require
>>the Structures I and Structures II NCEES exam.  Some States require SE's to
>>design structures while most States only require PE's.  Here in Texas we
>>have PE's.  I need to get registered in some other States the require the
>>Structures I and Structures II NCEES exam so I am in the process of taking
>>them.  I can take the test here in Texas accept there is a catch, they will
>>only let those who have passed the PE exam take it.  Therefore, a
>>engineer is an advancement past the PE level.
>>Richard Lewis, P.E.
>>Missionary TECH Team
>>The service mission like-minded Christian organizations
>>may turn to for technical assistance and know-how.