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RE: Landslide

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>Stan wrote:
>> If you don't hold yourself out to be a structural engineer, then you
>> have no business recommending concrete reinforcement!

Arvel wrote:
>Well we better tear out all of the road, culverts, water treament facilities
>misc. constructs designed by plain jane Civil Engineers.  They have exceed
>area of expertise and put in reinforcing steel without passing the SE exam.

Arvel, this is a sneaky way to divert the subject back to Civil-Civils
designing structures.  Let's not go there again!  Most of this Listserv
has previously concluded that they should not be designing structures.
BTW, I don't consider paving to be structures unless it happens to be
bridge deck.

Stan wrote:
>>  If you promise
>> >not to practice structural, we'll promise not to practice geotechnical.

Arvel wrote:
>Then you won't be asking for a specific number of borings and/or tests on
>next project?  You will allow the geotechs to provide you with investigation
>parameters based on their experience in the area?

Arvel, this is precisely the way in which my firm practices.  We prefer
for the Geotech to be hired directly by the Owner whenever possible, and
we refrain from directing the scope or performance of the Geotech's work
except to state what types of design criteria we ultimately need to
receive.  In this way, we leave the responsibility for geotechnical
engineering right where it belongs, with the Geotech.

This is not just an academic point.  In the late 1980's, my firm
designed a two-story precast concrete and CMU institutional project,
isolated (void space) from the subgrade and supported on belled piers at
a depth of fifteen feet.  The building has subsequently been
significantly damaged by foundation movement, and multi-million dollar
litigation is still dragging on.  There were only two soil borings on
this project, and they each extended to thirty feet.  As it now turns
out, competent rock (bearing stratum) exists at about thirty-five feet.
I am pleased to report that my firm is not a party to this litigation.
We did not recommend, select, or hire the Geotech who did the work, and
had no role in determining their scope of work.   

Stan wrote:
>> Soil-structure interaction is within the domain of the geotech, but
>> concrete reinforcement is not.

Arvel wrote:
>Not according to the Board of Registration in Oklahoma.  I'm a P.E. in Civil.
> I
>would not try to design a three story metal frame building (yet) but our firm
>design the foundations for several towers, signs, and monuments.  Some the
>request of the AOR or EOR as a sub.

Arvel, are you saying that there now are some three story buildings in
Oklahoma?  When did that happen? {;^>}  Don't go getting all upset, I'm
a P.E. in Oklahoma too.  As you know, it is a long-standing tradition
for those on either side of the Red River to poke fun at each other.
Now that Barry Switzer has gone back where he belongs, it is my belief
that the average IQ in both states has risen significantly!

Arvel wrote:
>Let's agree to disagress on this issue.
Arvel, I agree not to practice outside my area of expertise.  Will you
do the same?

Best Regards from South of the River,

Stan Caldwell, P.E.
Dallas, Texas

>We are born with our eyes closed and our mouths open,
>and we spend our whole lives trying to reverse that mistake
>of nature.                                   ... anonymous