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RE: 1997 UBC

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First for those who are probably angered that this was not sent in plain
text, I had not choice since the original was in a formated text condition
and my reply choice only allows me to respond in kind. Rather thanstart a
new message, I choose to continue with this format:

No debate here, but a few suggestions:
1) You take a very strong stance upon not criticing the work of committees
if the reader chooses not to participate. However, it has become very clear
on this list that there are many who deserve the right to voice an opinion
but who are unable, for various reasons, to participate.
In defense of your statement, it is also true that the majority of members
(especially if there are truly 6000 subscibers to this list) are simply
It is as much the responsibility of the Committee Chairs to post their
ork  - through the course of development - on the SEAOC Web Site. It shoud
be available for that section of the professional community with access to
the  Internet documents. This is much preferable to waiting until the work
has been done and then letting others review it.

Not utilizing the Internet tools created for committees leads to a
presumption that the efforts were purposly restricted to a selected few.
Others are omitted from the development process by the argument such as the
one in your statement #4;
 4) If you don't vote in an public election, you have lost the right to
|     complain about the winner.  If you don't participate in the committee
|     process ...
With all due respect to you, this argument is rapidly losing strength to
other options that committees are ignoring.
We have had the Web site ready for three years - each committee from each
chapter, as well as the state, has available space in which to post their
work. Inasmuch as the work is created on a word processor, the only missing
link is the ability to get the file on the Web. This is easily accomplished
by submitting the document file to Don Gilbert at seaosc(--nospam--at)
3) SEAOSC has agreed to stop submitting board meeting minutes by fax and to
start distributing them by email. This means that one document can be sent
immediately to each member of the board and (if they allow) to any member of
the organization that wishes to have a copy. This is done very simply by
adding the recipients email address to the distribution list.
What does it save. It saves the time and expense to print, copy and fax
(phone calls - some long distance) to each and every member on the
distribution list. I also saves Don Gilbert time that can be devoted to more
productive areas of work. Therefore, the committees should be motivated to
adopt this means of distribution and allow information to flow to those
outside that request it.
4) Each of these steps can be done without the need to create a Virtual
Committee which, in turn, needs to be developed before it can be used.
Still, the information will be in a place that engineers who wish to
establish electronic ties to their professional organization can. At this
time, if an engineer wants information and is unable to attend a meeting,
they must contact the committee chair or Don Gilbert and request the
information by mail. This is, in the very least, a tedious, time consuming
and expensive task for SEAOC as well as in inconvenience to the committee
Electronic mail is no longer a rare occurrence among people, but has become
a very important way to communicate throughout the world and rapidly
becoming the standard. It is the responsibility of the decision and policy
makers within our professional organizations to come to terms with the
evolution of this medium and devote their efforts to making themselves and
their membership accessible by electronic means.

Finally, my comments about drinking: Although they were meant in jest, are
still a sad fact. I don't know if the individual consumed alcohol or is
simply aggressively outspoken. Alcohol is known to reduce inhibitions and
allow people to act in a manner that they would normally have better control
It is not, in my opinion, proper to redress anyone publicly - period. If you
wish to comment about an individual's poor etiquette outside his presence
then omit his name. Conversely, this individual showed very poor judgement
in a room of his peers by becoming argumentative at the speakers expense and
probably should apologize for is actions (not his opinions).

Dennis S. Wish PE

|-----Original Message-----
|From:	Bill Allen [mailto:ballense(--nospam--at)]
|Sent:	Monday, March 16, 1998 8:29 AM
|To:	'seaoc(--nospam--at)'
|Subject:	RE: 1997 UBC
|-----Original Message-----
|From:	Rick.Drake(--nospam--at) [SMTP:Rick.Drake(--nospam--at)]
|Sent:	Monday, March 16, 1998 4:08 AM
|To:	seaoc(--nospam--at)
|Subject:	1997 UBC
|     I have read with interest the comments about the recent Orange County
|     Dinner Meeting and the 1997 UBC provisions and offer the following for
|     thoughts.
|     1) It is discourteous and unprofessional to "bad mouth" a fellow
|     Engineer on this server, especially if that individual is not a
|     member.
|[Bill Allen, S.E. ALLEN DESIGNS]
|However, no less discourteous than the conduct the "fellow Engineer"
|presented at the dinner meeting. I certainly don't like "talking
|behind someone's back. Feel free to pass my original post to Bob if he
|does not participate on this listserv.
|     2) The 1997 UBC was not written by any one individual.  It was written
|     by the State Seismology Committee, whose membership include
|     representatives from all 4 SEAOC sections.  This occurred over a three
|     year cycle, each year with new committee heads.  The 1997 UBC
|     provisions reflect the diligent effort of hundreds of our fellow
|     Engineers, many of which participate on this server.  The code
|     provisions written by SEAOC still had to be approved by ICBO
|     membership.
|[Bill Allen, S.E. ALLEN DESIGNS]
|* However, the State Seismology Committee consists of individuals who
|  should be accountable to the professionals who have to interpret the
|  code provisions. By reducing the responsibility to an inanimate
|  object deflects the blame.
|     3) All committee meetings are open for any member of the general
|     public to attend.  Meeting notes are posted on the SEAOC list server
|     for those unable to attend.
|[Bill Allen, S.E. ALLEN DESIGNS]
|* This is not very well maintained nor are proposed code provisions
|  maintained at the site. While I realize this effort is provided by
|  voluntary energies, a dialog would improve if this area were
|  maintained better.
|     4) If you don't vote in an public election, you have lost the right to
|     complain about the winner.  If you don't participate in the committee
|     process ...
|[Bill Allen, S.E. ALLEN DESIGNS]
|* If I had to drive to Whittier and sit through an hour and a half
|  meeting several times, I probably wouldn't vote either. I can vote
|  locally (within a mile of my home) or by absentee ballot. Should
|  SEAOC embrace Virtual Committee participation, I am fairly certain
|  that you would see more participation.
|* I regularly get a publication from ICBO about proposed code changes.
|  It would be great if these issues were presented and discussed on
|  either this listserv or the SEAOSC website moderated by the
|  appropriate committee chair.
|* You must have graduated from the "Frank Lew School of How to Get
|  Things Done" :o)
|* Speaking of voting, it would be nice if prospective candidates of
|  SEAOC would put their position papers on the SEAOSC website so that
|  members could evaluate their choices.
|     5) Those of us who believe that the 1997 UBC provisions have strayed
|     from "easy-to-use" to "requires a short course to explain" should take
|     the opportunity to participate in the 2000 IBC process, possibly
|     through participation in a SEAOC committee.  Details of the IBC
|     process have been offered on the list server by Franklin Lew, Thomas
|     Hunt, and others.
|[Bill Allen, S.E. ALLEN DESIGNS]
|* See above.
|     6) Yes, Dennis, we do have cocktails at the Orange County dinner
|     meeting before the program.
|     Rick Drake, SE
|     Fluor Daniel, Inc

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