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RE: I don't get it....

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Just to add a note to Franks response. I started the whole thing by writing
to those on the MathCad server who were producing Structural Templates and
inviting them to participate in the SEAOC Listservice. I also told them how
appreciative the members of the list would be for any contribution to our
growing MathCad Template freeware on the SEAOC Web.
I hope others won't be discouraged from participating. I can't blame Bill
for this, since he was unaware of my initial request to Dale. As one other
list member stated, we can't all be so thin skinned to be seriously offended
by direct comments. For every one that appreciated Dale's donation to his
profession, he could delete the non-constructive criticisms without taking
I think one problem I've had is trying to introduce this to the outside like
they were my family. I expect them to be on their best behavior, but this is
really not my place. I only hope that others on the list are a bit more
considerate of new visitors bearing gifts.

Dennis Wish PE
La Quinta, California
ICQ# 6110557

"Silence is the virtue of fools."
Francis Bacon

|-----Original Message-----
|From:	Frank Yang [mailto:yang(--nospam--at)]
|Sent:	Thursday, March 26, 1998 6:51 PM
|To:	'seaoc(--nospam--at)'
|Subject:	RE: I don't get it....
|Bill and Dennis,
|Please allow me to follow up on my original post.  I promise this
|will be my last post on this subject.
|First, I apologize to Bill Allen if "with the bull's eye on his
|back" refereed to me jumping out of no where and gave you a cheap
|shot.  It was never intended to be this way.
|If I may compare your post against the other post I mentioned.
|You both 1) identified a problem,  2) didn't offer a real
|suggestion for improvement, and 3) make the original poster seem
|"sub-normal" compare to the rest of the 6000 of us who subscribed
|to this list.
|I made this point clear because I don't think which word you used
|matter as much as what attitude you shown.  If the S word is not
|acceptable, what about "fool", "idiot"... Where do we draw the
|line?  Should we include a section in the FAQ about words that is
|not acceptable in this list?
|I'd never download Mr. Richmond's program, so I cannot comment on
|his program.  However, if I downloaded his program, use it like it
|so much that I think my peer should know about it.  I will post a
|note to the server to think him, and recommend other to use it.
|If I find the program useful but am not ready to "tell the world",
|I'll send him a private e-mail to thank him.  If I found serious
|flaw in his program, I would probably send him a private e-mail
|and point out the problem in his program.  He can then post the
|correction/warning to the rest of the list for using his program.
|We are all human, we make mistakes.  And we learn from our
|mistakes.  In your post, I presumed you didn't find any mistake in
|Mr. Richmond's program.  You complain about the length of the
|calculation.  Yet, you didn't offer any suggestion about which
|part, if any, could be cut/revise to make it more efficient.
|Therefore, your post is nothing more than waste of bandwidth (I
|apologize for the strong word).
|I recognize that this message should really be send as a private
|mail to you.  However, I also believe it is best send it to the
|list server because you are Bill Allen.  You advocate this list is
|as good as any face to face meeting.  You jump all over the other
|poster for his irresponsible comment (which we all know it was a
|joke gone bad now).  You complain about the "districtive" behavior
|in OC meeting.  You encourage lurker to participate.  Yet, I my
|opinion, you did exactly the opposite.  If this list is as good as
|any face to face meeting.  I believe your action is like putting a
|pie at Mr. Richmond's face.  It doesn't matter if the pie is a
|"mud pie" or a "cheese cake".  Also, I may be wrong, I believe
|this is the first time Mr. Richmond participate on the list.  I
|serious doubt that Mr. Richmond, as well as any other lurker,
|could be encourage to shear their collections with the rest of us.
| I know I won't, I could be called "Un-real", "Virtual", or
|"Imaginary" by one of the list's regular.  I believe your post did
|a irrecoverable damage to Dennis and your call for more people to
|joint the discussion.
|Again I apologize for the strong word I used.  However, please
|believe every word is from my heart and non of it is intended to
|be a cheap shot.  Even though this message is address to Bill
|Allen, I think it is also address to all the "regular" in this
|list.  When you speak, please remember there are more than 6000
|silence audiences out there.
|As I promise, I'll not add any more to this subject.  Therefore,
|Bill, you'll have the last word.  If you read this far, you knew
|that I am not a native speaker.  So I thank you in advance for
|staying with the subject and not my writing.  I now step down from
|the soap box and not expect to return for a long time.
|Sincerely AND respectfully
|Frank Yang
|Ps.  1. The above are my own opinions and not my employer's.
|      2.  I would appreciate if this message is not quoted for any
|one in  this list for any reason.

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