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RE: Survey, final result (Corrected) -Reply

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thank you acie chance.  

one of the throngs of lurkers

>>> Chance, Acie P. <acie_chance(--nospam--at)wdi.disney.com>
04/30/98 08:11am >>>
Bill 

I do not think you are correct in your assumptions of CEs. I
did not get my
SE for 8 to 10 years after collage as it was not required.
Should I have been restricted to design only sewers for this
time. I could design a sewer but I sure would not make any
money at it. My guess is that 70% or more of the
engineering work is in one or two story residential or
commercial buildings. Six months after graduation I was
designing this type of building with minimal checking by the
owner. When I got my CE license I checked and signed work
for others who had not taken the CE test yet. The University I
attend did not have a BS in Structural Engineering only Civil
Engineering.
We all took the same classes. We all took strength of
materials and static along with the basic material design
classes. Do not get to high and mighty about your SE it is
only a title not a license to practice.

Acie Chance

CE first then SE 

> ----------
> From: 	Bill Allen, S.E.[SMTP:billallen(--nospam--at)earthlink.net]
> Sent: 	Wednesday, April 29, 1998 5:36 PM
> To: 	seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org
> Subject: 	Re: Survey, final result (Corrected)
>  > Even though we were joking, I believe you deserve a
better (and more
> complete) answer than my previous response. My concern
is not with
> professionals with your education and experience. IMO,
you would be well
> qualified to practice here in CA. Something that you may
not know is that,
> in CA, Architects and Civil Engineers are also allowed to
stamp and sign
> structural drawings. Architects here generally have about a
semester and a
> half of structural engineering courses (I don't know how
detailed the
> curriculum gets) and Civil Engineers can (or did, I think it
may be
> changing
> to 4 years) get a PE two years out of school. Many CEs
here in the US get
> a
> BSCE degree which means a lot of their engineering
courses are not
> structural. Further, a lot of Civils don't do structural
engineering on a
> regular basis; just maybe when the economy gets slow
and there are no
> subdivisions to design.
>  > My solution if in charge (scary thought, huh?) would be
a simple one.
> Assuming that the general background of those holding a
CA SE is
> satisfactory (they generally have to work 3 years for a
licensed SE and
> take
> a 16 hr structural exam after passing the CE), my focus
would be on the
> "others" who are allowed to practice structural engineering.
These
> "others"
> are Architects and Civil Engineers. I would require all
Architects and
> Civil
> Engineers who wanted to practice or advertise an expertise
in structural
> engineering to take a simple, one problem exam. This
exam would be a two
> story, "L" shaped building. The materials can be anything
(wood walls and
> wood diaphragms, masonry walls and wood diaphragms,
steel frames with
> metal
> deck and concrete fill or reinforced concrete frames/shear
walls with a
> concrete slab). The requirements would be to:
>  > 1. Develop the base shear stating all assumptions
> 2. Perform a vertical distribution of the base shear.
> 3. Determine the stresses in the diaphragms
> 4. Prepare a preliminary/schematic design of the
diaphragms
> 5. Determine the forces on the lateral force resisting
elements
> 6. Prepare a preliminary/schematic design of the lateral
force resisting
> elements
> 7. Design the connections such that there is a continuous
load path from
> roof to foundation.
>  > Only a calculator would be acceptable and the forces in
moment frames (if
> used) could be estimated using any logical method
("assuming a point of
> inflection at the midheight of the columns, the moments in
the columns
> would
> be..."). Sketches, explanations, etc. would count a great
deal (maybe more
> than the calculations) and partial credit would be liberal (I
hate that
> word).
>  > Another element I would propose is mandatory E&O
insurance (just like the
> requirements to register a car here). The goal of this
requirement is to
> mitigate competition with "moonlighters" who have no
overhead costs and,
> in
> a weak economy, drive down engineering fees to a
dangerously low level.
> For
> all of the moonlighters reading this, don't get upset. I have
no problem
> with what you do on your own time, just charge the same
as you would if
> you
> had to pay for an office.
>  > Regards,
> Bill Allen
>  > -----Original Message-----
> From: John Nichols <cejn(--nospam--at)engmail.newcastle.edu.au>
> To: seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org <seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org>
> Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 4:41 PM
> Subject: Re: Survey, final result (Corrected)
>  >  > >Dear Bill,
> >
> >I have a Bachelor of Engineering with Honours and a
University Medal,  I
> am
> >almost completed a PhD in Masonry, in dynamics  at
Newcastle University
> >under Adrain Page,
> >I have won awards for repairs to St Andrews Church from
the Institution
> of
> >Engineers for seismic retrofit to the Church.
> >
> >I canna practice under your  BORPELS rules.
> >
> >How much more restricitve do you wanna get
> >
> >LOL
> >
> >John Nichols
> >
> >(this is a leg pull off as my 3 yr old daughter would say)
> >
> >
> >
> >At 13:13 29/04/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >>Now that this survey question is complete (I guess we
can have job posts
> >>here), should we ponder the next survey question?
Maybe we should query
> >>whether BORPELS should be more restrictive on who
can practice
> structural
> >>engineering in seismic zone 4?
> >>
> >>Bill Allen
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Shafat Qazi <seaoc-ad(--nospam--at)seaoc.org>
> >>To: seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org <seaoc(--nospam--at)seaoc.org>
> >>Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 12:21 PM
> >>Subject: Survey, final result (Corrected)
> >>
> >>
> >>>Here are the final results: (Corrected)
> >>>
> >>>62% Voted YES
> >>>38% Voted NO
> >>>
> >>>A total of 137 people participated in the survey.
> >>>Shafat
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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