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RE: Architects Doing Engineering -Enough!

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Somehow, I knew out dialog would sink to the point where the only defense
you have is to attack me for either not getting more involved in committee
work or not holding some elected office. This portion of the thread began
when Tom Chiu speculated that I had raised a topic (of which there has been
at least 40 various opinions posted) and then coyly ask "How does this
problem get solved"? Well, I developed a reasonable plan. Now you want me to
execute the plan myself? As you know by now, I have too strong opinions to
hold a political office nor do I have the time since I am running a one man
shop (more or less). But, hey, I admit it. I don't have a clue what the
people who accept the position of Director or President assumed that their
role would be. I do know that, while paying dues for eighteen years, I have
seen very little evidence where the organization has done anything to
protect the professional (as opposed to the profession). This topic would be
one good place and, I believe, there is a solution that most of us can
support. At the very least it would be nice if someone could/would print out
this thread, hand it to the presidents and directors of the various
chapters, "encourage" them to consider the issue, formulate a reasonable
position and put it to a vote by the membership. If there are costs
associated with implementing this plan, present that too. Do something. Why
assume others will do my "heavy lifting"? Frank, that's why I elected them
and pay dues. Just like the members of AIA do. Just like the members of a
representative form of government do. Please, Frank, if you can't offer
something constructive, please go back to your knitting and leave this
thread alone.

Bill Allen

-----Original Message-----
From: FLew98 [mailto:FLew98(--nospam--at)]
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 1998 3:53 PM
To: seaoc(--nospam--at)
Subject: Re: Architects Doing Engineering -Enough!

In a message dated 98-05-23 16:17:46 EDT, bill(--nospam--at) write:

>  Isn't this a role for our elected SEAOC representatives?

That's a cop out.  Have you ever served SEAOSC or SEAOC as a director or
officer?  Have you ever stood for election to office?  Have you ever even
considered standing for election?  Then why assume others will do your
lifting?  If I've misjudged you, and you've actually served, then you know
that a representative's messages, positions and agendas are accorded
and respect by other groups in direct proportion to the level of support,
committment, zeal and unity shown by the organization's membership.  And
that often requires both financial as well as time committments from the
members.  Engineers grouse about not getting the respect or fair shake we
deserve, but much of it is our fault.  We want to stick to our knitting, and
leave the messy politics to others.  Until recently, Bill Gates thought he
could do that, too.

Among the things the colorful southern senator, Huey Long, is remembered for
is this ditty, spoken in a syncopated style:  "Don't tax you; don't tax me;
tax that guy behind the tree."  The attitude of many engineers would be
captured if the verb 'tax' is changed to 'count on'.  Frustrating, and sad.
Getting engineers to make common cause is akin to herding cats.  Pogo was

Frank Lew, SE
Orinda, CA