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RE: Surveys on the list (was Q&A - Future of Server)

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In defense of James Lai's Survey:
I believe that this is the most appropriate place for such a survey. The
survey is greatly dependent upon the opinions of those who use it the most
inasmuch as we are presently the target for any changes that may occur.

With that said, I believe that the survey is misleading in that it does not
explain the reasons for asking the questions in the first place. In order
for the members of this list to understand how a simple name change can
affect the future of the list, I believe that Mr. Lai should provide some
background information. Although I have some information, I do not feel
qualified to present it to the list.

I have submitted some personal thoughts to Mr. Lai in private and have
suggested that he provide more information to the list to clarify the issues
at hand.

Finally, the idea of a name change, IMHO, goes much deeper than ownership or
to remind users just who created and maintains the server. Based upon my
question a few months ago (or challenge) to have "Lurkers" come out and
identify themselves, one thing became apparent to me. As nice as it is to
get recognition for such a great tool, it is more important to have
engineers feel as though the Listservice (and other lists to come) are
theirs. It is also important to those of us who worked to create the tools
to know that other engineers with or without professional affiliations will
be more inclined to contribute to the profession and work on creating better
tools. Without individual input, regardless of affiliation, this list would
not exist. I suggested an more generic server name long ago for this
purpose. Those who responded to my thread felt, for the most part, that they
were guests on the List and were very cautious about contributing or wasting

This was not the intent that I wished to foster when we sat down to create
goals for the CAC. I can not speak for Shafat, but I believe he agrees with
me at least in intent. We tried very hard to have the SEAOC and SEAOSC board
of directors understand the potential of this tool and the need to make a
public (albeit professional) list that would foster community cooperation
without restriction or the feeling of imposing upon someone else's private
creation. Regardless of who starts or owns the hardware, the direction and
input comes from a very diversified group of engineers. No one any more
important than the other.

These idea's may seem idealistic, but they are at the root of the creation
of this list. Now that the Listservice has been created, I believe it is
important to understand the true owners are those of you who use it.
Therefore, the future of the list, should be of equal concern to all 6,000
who have subscribed. The "we" is not SEA but as one other engineering
suggested "International Structural Engineering Listservice". Once we accept
this, I believe, more individuals will contribute and help the list's grow.

With that said, I think Mr. Lai would provide a service to the list to be
more specific in the information that prompted the survey to be posted.

Dennis S. Wish PE

-----Original Message-----
From: uucp Admin [mailto:uucp(--nospam--at)]On Behalf Of ITSEKSON SASHA
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 11:04 AM
Subject: Surveys on the list (was Q&A - Future of Server)


I don't think that this list is an appropriate place for a survey like that.
It's a waste of
bandwidth and space in people's inboxes.

As the experience with the employment ads has shown us, it can be easilly
conducted from the web site or you can send your opinions directly to Mr.
Lai at jslaicse(--nospam--at)

Sasha Itsekson, PE

To: seaoc(--nospam--at)
Subject: Q&A - Future of Server
Date: Sunday, June 07, 1998 9:22PM

To: All readers of the List Server:

Allow me first of all to congratulate Shafat Qazi, the CAC Committee and
those participants who contribute to the success of this web server.
While the server has attracted many readers within California, others
throughout the United States and some overseas readers have also give
significant input to this server.

This web server requires continuing improvement and maintenance. In
order to assist your future board to make plans for continual growth and
maintenance of the web server under volunteer effort, we seek your
wisdom and comment on the following questions:

1. Do you visit the list server because of its contents? yes
2. Do you sign up the list server because of the name no
3. Do you like the idea of a change of name to ( which stand
for SEA International)? no problem
4. Will there be draw back if the name changes within the next 3
months? only if I lose contact with the listserv
5. Can you adopt to a change of name within the 3 months transition?
no problem
6. Can you volunteer to assist our CAC to maintain this server?
doubtful; it would depend on task
7. If the server is run by an outside vendor other than our members,
will you continue your support?likely yes
8. Do current vendors participate because of the name or the
popularity of the server? I have no direct knowledge but  my impression
is yes  to both....I would like to see a similar setup in every state.

James S. Lai
SEAOSC President-Elect