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RE: SEAOSC v. SEAOC

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Thanks Ernie, at times we don't agree - and this is one of them. There are
many "insiders" who have heard from Goldstein and his message is clear and
concise.
First, he believes that he  does not represent the members, and attends only
to Lutrell and the state officers. If this is true, then I suggest that
Lutrell and Price be responsible for Goldstein's salary and reimburse the
membership from thier contributions.  Remember, even though we did not pay
the $10.00 dues increase we still financially support the state from the
dues that we do pay. It's this revenue that pays Goldsteins salary.
Second, Goldstein is a hired office manager - nothing more. He is not
qualified to be a spokesman for the profession and serves no higher position
of responsiblity than Don Gilbert or Lori Campbell (however, Lori is an
employee of Allen Goldstein and Associates).
Third, there is no room for politics in this issue. SEAOC's expenditure for
a 10 plus page glossy newsletter to approximately 4000 state members
depleted our dues contribution by many thousands of our dollars. There was
nothing redeming in that newsletter, which was devoted almost in it's
entirety to boosting Allen Goldsteins reputation among the membership. None
of us are stupid enough to see past this ploy. This waste of state funds was
done without the consent of the members and should be reimbursed to the
members by Lutrell - after all, has the members agreed to cover campaign
expenses from the state budget.  This kind of spin party should never have
taken place.
Fourth, Goldstein, Lutrell and Price are technically challenged with respect
to the Internet and server. They openly admit that they have no interest in
the Server, Listservice or professional journal - passing it off as a "fad"
which will lose momentum over time. Goldstein believes he has more important
issues to face.

Ernie, I don't mean to sound harsh - you have always tried to find the most
ameniable solution to the various problems that abound this list. I admire
that. I have a philosophy that resulted in my resigning as editor of SEAOC
Online - a person can comprimise issues only so much before the results are
so diluted as to make them ineffective. Some issues require a stand - this
may be one of them.

Respectfully
Dennis Wish

-----Original Message-----
From: ErnieNSE(--nospam--at)aol.com [mailto:ErnieNSE(--nospam--at)aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 5:14 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: SEAOSC v. SEAOC


I would like to look at this controversy from the other side's point of
view.
I will forget for a minute that I am a SEAOSC member. I will think like
Goldstein, Luttrell and Price.

Even if Goldstein is not an engineer, and after hearing a lot of negative
things about him on this listserve, I believe he is a politician who cares
more about how to get things done in pursuit of a set objective even if a
lot
of people get hurt on the way there. If a politicians way can get us noticed
in the government, at whatever cost, then I am for it. Unless we can do it
another way(a non-political, technical, soft-hearted approach). His
experience
seems to be  in the unification of groups of regional organization, getting
them to compromise on various issues that require a consensus, and
determining
the best way to get a positive response from the governing authorities.

A politicians way, using clean or disty tactics, is always controversial and
unpopular. They step on a lot of other people's toes on their way to the top
to do what has to be done. I symphatize with him. Mr. Goldstein's goal for
the
good of our profession may be sincere and noble, only his ways might look or
sound like he does not care. We don't know because we haven't heard from
him.
He may be the type of politician who does not see the need to explain or
justify himself to anybody as long as he feels that what he is doing is
right
and is for the good of whoever he is working for(Structural Engineers).

Luttrell and Price supports Goldstein. They both believe that his way, and
doingf it fast, is the best and only way. They get frustrated when things
move
too slow. To the point of asking those who do not agree with them to quit or
get fired. They just need to cool down and play intelligent politics.

As for Mr. Goldstein, his challenge now(if he is not fired yet) is to prove
his talent by getting this fragmented pieces of regional organizations
together at whatever cost and get them to agree on a consensus within a
reasonable time frame to achieve his and everybody else's  goals. Otherwise,
if he cannot prove his worth, the state board members will have to find some
other way through some other guy to get things done.

Just my (other side) opinion.

Ernie Natividad