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Re: Plan check submittals and shop drawings

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Truss manufacturer says that their drawing is not shop drawing but rather
an erection drawing primarily showing the length and location of the
trusses (joist
We, EOR, have prepared the details for the connection of the truss to other
structural members but not the details of truss members themselves and have
these details in our contract drawings. The manufacturer has redrawn the
same details in their submittal drawing and have cross referenced them to
erection plan ( in the same sheet). I am told that this is done for the
ease of the
construction so that the workers would have all the information they need,
easily accessible,
in the same sheet in order to expedite the placing of the trusses, welding,
As I am sure you know that we usually select the joists based on a uniform
load and the
girders based on the magnitude of concentrated panel loads from the
manufacture's handbook and only call out the joist designation in our
plans. We also give additional information such as lateral load , uplift
load and any other information such as sprinkler main and mechanical
equipment load whose exact magnitude and location may or may not be known 
at the time of our design. We specify that the
manufacturer shall account for these loads. 
In addition to the note in my previous post regarding the sealing of the
truss drawings, 
we also have another note in our drawing which says" roof truss design,
details and shop drawings shall be submitted to the engineer and to the
department for review and written approval prior to fabrication."   
The plan checker says that this process is a deferred submittal and
it should be sealed by a licensed engineer. I am not sure, but it seems
like he may have a point.   
Now if this were true, whose responsibility would it be then to seal the
deferred submittals?
My feeling is that the manufacturer's engineer should design the
trusses based on the information given in the contract document and
submit them to EOR along with any drawings, both sealed by the same
EOR then would review them for compliance with the construction documents
and submit the 
approved set to the building department. Although I would recommend that
the manufacture's 
engineer have a disclaimer on the drawing which would state the extent of
his responsibilities.   

We have had many similar jobs in the past but have never had this kind of
problem before. 
Thank you for your input. 

Karim Hosseinzadeh, SE  

> From: ErnieNSE(--nospam--at)
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)
> Subject: Re: Plan check submittals and shop drawings
> Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 3:10 PM
> Ask your truss manufacturer specifically why he does not want to sign the
> plans and details.
> Your note says "Truss calculations and plans shall be designed and sealed
by a
> California licensed engineer" You did not say that the truss manufacturer
> sign and seal it.
> Also, you said that they refused to sign the plans and your details. If
> prepared the plans you must sign it. If he prepared the plans, he must
> it. Unless.......he says that the erection plan contains only the
> information(joist designation) you specified on your framing plan, and he
> not really specify and design the framing system but he just did
> on the joist you specified. If you prepared the details, you sign it.
> it is clear in your notes that the truss manufacturer shall provide
> truss details.
> Manufactured steel trusses are different from prefabricated wood trusses
> that they have specific designations and has a table in the UBC showing
> allowable loads for a specific joist. It is the same as specifying 4x10
> or 51/8x24 GLB or W12x22 beam. An engineer from a steel truss
> told me they don't even provide calcs for the standard trusses because
> are approved in UBC table. And some plan checkers are aware of these and
> with it. The only time you need truss calculations is when you have
> trusses that does not conform to the UBC table.
> With this in mind, you should not leave the roof steel truss design to
> truss manufacturer but call out the truss designation based on your
design and
> the UBC table and detail it per your requirements. The truss manufacturer
> fabricates it based on your roof framing plan call-out.
> If there are engineers for steel truss manufacturers out there,can you
> if this is true!!!!!!     I like to make sure so I don't have this same
> problem when I get a similar job.
> Ernie Natividad