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RE: Re; Plan check submittals and shop drawings

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I believe you are mistaken about this point and I would appreciate Jack
Bruce to jump in and clear up any misconceptions on this issue. I believe
DSA recognizes that their desire to have the SER be responsible for the
entire project by stamping and signing drawings and engineering produced by
others is in direct conflict with the California B&P code whereby an
engineer cannot stamp and sign work prepared by others unless that engineer
has responsible charge over that work. At one time, to solve this problem,
DSA published a one or two sentence directive indicating that the SER has
reviewed the drawings prepared by others etc. etc. from which a stamp can be
made and the SER can place this stamp on the drawings.

Outside of that, the only stamp I would place on someone else's drawings is
my shop drawing review stamp. Placing your engineer's stamp on someone
else's drawing for which you did not have responsible charge is in violation
of California's B&P code and, by doing so, would make you guilty of aiding
and abetting an unlicensed person to perform engineering services without a


Bill Allen

P.S.-It would be nice if DSA could offer this document so that SEAOC could
put it on its website.

-----Original Message-----
From: Drew A. Norman, S.E. [mailto:DNormanSE(--nospam--at)]
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 8:50 AM
To: SEAINT List Service
Subject: Re; Plan check submittals and shop drawings

<BIG snip>

Lastly, and perhaps to the surprise of anyone who reads this far, I think
Mr. Sprague is WRONG when he says he, "... would not seal the manufacturer's
drawings."  In the end, the EOR has primary responsibility to the public and
his client, and some building officials (e.g., DSA, OSHPD and, as of
recently, I believe LACBD) will require Mr. Hosseinzadeh's seal and
signature on ALL PARTS of the documents as a reflection of his acceptance of
that responsibility.  In my practice I would require Mr. Tiedgen to sign the
portions of the design drawings he prepared.  Once he had done so, and once
I had satisfied myself as to the consistency of design assumptions and the
completeness of the detailing, I would COUNTERSIGN the documents as EOR with
appropriate qualifications indicating the scope of my review as EOR and
recording the fact that responsibility for the design of the trusses
themselves remains with Mr. Tiedgen.

Thanks for listening.

Drew Norman, S.E.
Drew A. Norman and Associates