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Re: Re; Plan check submittals and shop drawings[Subject Prev][Subject Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
- To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
- Subject: Re: Re; Plan check submittals and shop drawings
- From: "J. Karim Hosseinzadeh" <jamkar(--nospam--at)earthlink.net>
- Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:32:59 -0700
Bill Allen, S.E. Wrote: <DON'T DO IT! Are you saying that do not seal the truss drawing in an approval context, even if it was sealed by the engineer who designed it? I too, feel more comfortable with using the shop drawing review stamps, but in light of fairness to everyone involved I have no problem with doing exactly what Mr. Charles Greenlaw wrote with respect to this issue. <I believe the EOR's approval, if offered, takes the form of an engineering <report that reports a judgment or "finding" on engineering by others that <the EOR reviewed. The EOR may not substitute his or her signature and seal <for that of the engineer exercising responsible charge of that design <finishing engineering, but may ADD his own, pursuant to "reporting" his <approval. The PE Act is silent about approvals being required, or signing <and sealing them; the originator's signature and seal satisfies the <requirements of the Act. (Only one engineer in responsible charge of a <particular element of design is envisioned in the PE Act.) Note also that <UBC sec 22.214.171.124 does not require the reviewing EOR to sign and seal the <"notation" forwarded to the building official that indicates completion of <review and a finding of general conformance. I don't do too much school work ( not that I don't like to), but I just happen to have a school job with DSA which finally got permitted last month. The plan checker who, by the way, did a very fine job of reviewing the plans, told me that DSA does not accept deferred submittals. So, therefore this kind of problem of delegation of engineering responsibility between the EOR and the fabricators would not likely to come about. On the other hand DSA requires that all drawings, Architectural, SE, CE, EE, ME, LS, etc., etc....be sealed by the architect. When I first learned about this I was extremely surprised, but I was more interested in getting the permit issued, so I didn't want to make any big issue. But the architect did. This was his first DSA job and he was very surprised . So the architect refused to seal the consultants drawings. His E&O insurer would not approve of his sealing the consultants drawings either and they threatened to cancel his insurance. (part 1, Title 24, C.C.R.) section 4-316(c) Assumption of responsibility which states" that responsible architect or engineer shall manually sign all original tracings or all copies of plans submitted for approval to indicate his or her assumption of responsibility.........................................." for the entire project, in my opinion, may be in conflict with B&P Code and PE act. Karim Hosseinzadeh, SE ---------- > From: Bill Allen, S.E. <Bill(--nospam--at)AllenDesigns.com> > To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org > Subject: RE: Re; Plan check submittals and shop drawings > Date: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 9:25 AM > > I believe you are mistaken about this point and I would appreciate Jack > Bruce to jump in and clear up any misconceptions on this issue. I believe > DSA recognizes that their desire to have the SER be responsible for the > entire project by stamping and signing drawings and engineering produced by > others is in direct conflict with the California B&P code whereby an > engineer cannot stamp and sign work prepared by others unless that engineer > has responsible charge over that work. At one time, to solve this problem, > DSA published a one or two sentence directive indicating that the SER has > reviewed the drawings prepared by others etc. etc. from which a stamp can be > made and the SER can place this stamp on the drawings. > > Outside of that, the only stamp I would place on someone else's drawings is > my shop drawing review stamp. Placing your engineer's stamp on someone > else's drawing for which you did not have responsible charge is in violation > of California's B&P code and, by doing so, would make you guilty of aiding > and abetting an unlicensed person to perform engineering services without a > license. > > DON'T DO IT! > > Regards, > Bill Allen > > P.S.-It would be nice if DSA could offer this document so that SEAOC could > put it on its website. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Drew A. Norman, S.E. [mailto:DNormanSE(--nospam--at)email.msn.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 8:50 AM > To: SEAINT List Service > Subject: Re; Plan check submittals and shop drawings > > <BIG snip> > > Lastly, and perhaps to the surprise of anyone who reads this far, I think > Mr. Sprague is WRONG when he says he, "... would not seal the manufacturer's > drawings." In the end, the EOR has primary responsibility to the public and > his client, and some building officials (e.g., DSA, OSHPD and, as of > recently, I believe LACBD) will require Mr. Hosseinzadeh's seal and > signature on ALL PARTS of the documents as a reflection of his acceptance of > that responsibility. In my practice I would require Mr. Tiedgen to sign the > portions of the design drawings he prepared. Once he had done so, and once > I had satisfied myself as to the consistency of design assumptions and the > completeness of the detailing, I would COUNTERSIGN the documents as EOR with > appropriate qualifications indicating the scope of my review as EOR and > recording the fact that responsibility for the design of the trusses > themselves remains with Mr. Tiedgen. > > Thanks for listening. > > Drew Norman, S.E. > Drew A. Norman and Associates > > > > > > > > >
- RE: Re; Plan check submittals and shop drawings
- From: Bill Allen, S.E.
- RE: Re; Plan check submittals and shop drawings
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