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Re: Design fee guidelines[Subject Prev][Subject Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
- To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
- Subject: Re: Design fee guidelines
- From: rnester(--nospam--at)juno.com
- Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 03:10:00 EST
Whether the client sees "quality engineering" as value added or "overdesign" is often a function of the client's relation to the project. A corporate or business client who is building for their own long-term use may certainly listen to "value" arguements, particularly if they have experienced the sad results of "minimum code" structures. A developer, on the other hand, usually finds it hard to charge extra for lease, rent, or sale of a "better structure". Perhaps we need to understand who our client is, and market our services accordingly. If your prospective client is of the low-bid-gets-the-job mentality on a speculative development, and your service is "quality" and "value", or state-of-the-art, you are probably selling in the wrong marketplace. Find a client who will value what you have to sell. Russ Nester rnester(--nospam--at)juno.com _____________________________________________________________ On Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:47:59 -0800 "Bill Allen, S.E." <Bill(--nospam--at)AllenDesigns.com> writes: In a lot of cases, the "better" the structural engineering, >the >higher the construction costs are. This is often due to the fact that >the >"good" structural design considers ALL the elements of the building >code as >well as some judicious consideration of performance issues not >necessarily >mandated by code. While this may be a rational approach (by the design >engineer as well as legal representation), the owner often interprets >this >methodology as "over engineering". > >To compensate, I believe we need to provide an ever expanding effort >to >educate our clients with regards to "features and benefits" of a well >engineered structure. IMO, it would be prudent to become service >oriented >and abandon "my way or the highway" attitude found in many engineering >firms. Those firms who appreciate and understand construction methods >and >incorporate those considerations into their plans will generally have >a more >grateful clientele. > >Again, just my $0.02 and my opinion > >Regards, >Bill Allen > >-----Original Message----- >From: GRileyPE(--nospam--at)aol.com [mailto:GRileyPE(--nospam--at)aol.com] >Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 10:26 AM >To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org >Subject: Re: Design fee guidelines > > >Dennis, et al. > >I couldn't take it anymore and I had to jump in. Fees can be addressed >in a >variety of ways. In my days at corporate hell (i.e. any organization >greater >than 100 employees), the fees were figured based opun actual manhours >times >a >multiplier (usually 2.65). This number was then compared to the total >construction cost. Since the competition were bidding in a similar >fashion, >it >all washed out. > >However, in the world of micro-hell, this is not possible since many >of us >do >not believe that we have the power to dictate our fees, but rather >that the >market determines our fees (in other words when an owner says that the >fee >is >outrageous and they can get it for less we fold. Half a loaf being >better >than >none). So we work for $1.99/hour. > >What needs to be done is better negotiations. Owners (they ultimately >pay >the >bills) view engineering as a line item on a bid similar to a quantitiy >of >concrete. Therefore, their first reaction is to take the lesser bid. >But, at >this point, it must be shown that the structural engineering design >can >drive >a large percentage of the construction cost well over the design fee. >With >this in mind, show the owner that your services (not fees) will result >in a >less expensive structural cost through value engineering and a good >set of >plans that will limit the time and money lost due to change orders, >clarifications, etc. If the owner can be convinced that the structural >services (not fees) that you are proposing will lower the project's >total >cost, then a reasonable owner will pay the premium for the service. If >they >still can't be convinced, you don't want to work for them. > >Remember, it is services and not fees that you must sell to the >clients. And >if you don't believe me, ask Richard Meier what he got to do the >Getty. > >Greg Riley PE > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
- RE: Design fee guidelines
- From: Bill Allen, S.E.
- RE: Design fee guidelines
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