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RE: Design via Internet (India & Mexico)[Subject Prev][Subject Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
- To: "'seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org'" <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
- Subject: RE: Design via Internet (India & Mexico)
- From: "Bill Cain, S.E." <bcain(--nospam--at)ebmud.com>
- Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:10:18 -0800
Dennis & Bill- Neither of you is going to convince the other. You just disagree. How about giving it a rest? Bill Cain, S.E. Oakland, CA -----Original Message----- From: Dennis S. Wish PE [SMTP:wish(--nospam--at)cwia.com] Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 23:52 PM To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org Subject: RE: Design via Internet (India & Mexico) -----Original Message----- From: Bill Allen, S.E. [mailto:Bill(--nospam--at)AllenDesigns.com] Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 11:41 AM To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org Subject: RE: Design via Internet (India & Mexico) Yes, Dennis, to confirm, my remark was intended as polite fun. No offense intended. <dennis> I took it as such. To answer your hypothetical questions: If I had to start competing with a fee lower than the effort and risk and there is NOTHING I can do to become competitive and maintain the lifestyle I have chosen, then I have a choice: new lifestyle or new profession. What's so hard about that? Please don't expect the Feds to make that decision for you. <Dennis> You are putting words into my mouth on this. I never suggested that the answer was Fed controls - the Feds put us in this position by approving GATT and NAFTA. Only the majority voice can correct this. The last place I would expect help is Washington DC. IMO, there is nothing wrong with making a profit (by anyone, privateer or publicly traded corporation). Please don't make "profit" sound like a dirty word. <Dennis> Bill, we just had a thread where engineers believed that those of us who did not bill at or close to 1% to 2% of construction cost were considered helping to force down the income level of our profession. Personally, I see competiton at less than 50% of my fee to be a much greater threat to this profession. Look, the field of economics is WAY over my head, but I understand that wealth is not like water (i.e., a finite amount, never to change). If the standard of living in countries like Mexico, China and India improve, they will be able to afford goods and services provided by the U.S. Money comes in and people want to build new state-of-the-art football stadiums. We get to design them. So what if the CAD work is actually done in Mexico, China, Indonesia or India? <dennis> I think I answered this in my other posts. The advent of the cotton gin and the assembly line initially put the economy in chaos. We once (before 1972) had the US Dollar tied to the gold standard based on the amount of gold in Ft. Knox. If this were still true, we would now be TOTALLY out of the global market. Small potatoes. <dennis> Being tied to a gold standard may have made this "Global Ecconomy" idea actually work. After WWII either Roosevelt or Truman (I don't remember which one accomplished this) adjusted the ecconomic levels in the US to be more in line with other countries. This maintained personal debt, but prevented the possiblity of recession. This was suggested in the 80's when interest rates rose to over 20% and inflation was out of hand - it was never inacted. This adjustment would place us on a level field and would allow people from all over the world to compete more effectivly without as great a sacrifice. There would be less incentive to move manufacturing to other countries, but American products would be more affordable to those who earn less. I believe this was a good thing. I also believe that if we really want global competition we should not expect middle income Americans to pay the price while higher income investors in International Corporations benifit. If you don't believe an open market, free enterprise and competition is good, maybe you should take your practice somewhere where you don't have to worry about such things. Maybe some of your international colleagues here on the 'Net would like to trade places with you. <dennis> This is an unfair personal attack, and rather childish. I'm entitled to my opinions and belief's whether they fit with your thinking or not. You don't have to read my comments - do what you did some months ago - filter me to your trash bin. I'd be much more satisfied with not hearing from you than being subjected to personal attacks. As far as your personal attack - I won't dignify your comment with any further rhetoric nor will I respond to you in the same explitive's that you once sent me. One thing that is constant is change. Get used to it. Above all, we don't need a protectionist federal government telling us how to make a living. <dennis> You are doing exactly what you accused me of doing and I won't insult you with the same response you sent me. I never suggested government intervention - you need to read rather than skim my posts looking for only the words you want to bias me with. Regards, Bill Allen Not likely, Dennis -----Original Message----- From: Dennis S. Wish PE [mailto:wish(--nospam--at)cwia.com] Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 10:17 AM To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org Subject: RE: Design via Internet (India & Mexico) I know this was meant to be taken in polite fun, but consider this. What if your area suddenly turned up with engineers who could make a decent living charging what I do. What happens to your standard of living when your fees begin to drop. In my case I earn more than my competition in this area -not less. Now consider if your local competition started to send their work overseas at $5.00 per hour in labor to design. How will you react if, rather than 2% of the construction cost, you suddenly are competing at 0.02% of the construction cost. This is potentially a serious problem. The EOR remains local so Observation and on-site coordination is not done from overseas, but locally as it should. The EOR, who is local, retains control of the design and will not violate any regulations since he stay in responsible charge. I don't see this as a threat if the engineering company is a small individual owned or closed corporation. But if the company is publicly traded, look-out. The pressure to maintain profit would be enough incentive to drive labor out of this country. Respectfully Dennis -----Original Message----- From: AnandNene(--nospam--at)aol.com [mailto:AnandNene(--nospam--at)aol.com] Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 7:49 AM To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org Subject: Re: Design via Internet (India & Mexico) In a message dated 11/4/98 10:07:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, Bill(--nospam--at)AllenDesigns.com writes: > Don't worry, Dennis, if your previous discussion regarding fees is any > indication, nobody is going to steal your work :o). Well said Bill! Anand Nene
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