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RE: Wind Damage in Kansas

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I don't mean to bust your bubble on this one, but I originated this
discussion on the SEAint Listservice with a copy sent to the REACH-L List. I
felt the discussion was important - especially for architects and builders
active in residential design and construction. However, none of the
responses or additions to this discussion came from the REACH List. They
were forwarded by me and one other copied to the Reach Net. I specifically
asked all who were interested in responding to do so to both Lists. I
believe that if those who responded did not have the inclination to forward
their opinions to REACH they probably did so under the belief that there was
not valid reason to warrant the extra effort.

I agree with your assessment, there is a need for a REACH committee.
Unfortunately, the only persons interested or accessible to this discussion,
were current SEAint List members - a free, unrestricted List.

I'm not trying to turn this into a political issue. The fact is the REACH
list restricts participation to paid members. What incentive is offered
another List member to include REACH in their communications link when they
are not allow direction participation on the REACH List. This becomes a one
way, restrictive conduit for those who are interested. To assume that they
will place down $100.00 or $125.00 per year for the privilege of being a
REACH member is pretentious.

This thread included comments from Thor A. Tandy, PE from British Columbia,
Tom Jakaby, SE - an engineer interested in the topic from San Francisco,
Richard Dahlmann, P.E. a SEAint (free) subscriber, A. Roger Turk,
P.E.(Structural) - another interested engineer on the SEAint List from
Tucson Arizona, Jim Kestner, P.E. - yet another SEAint interested engineer
from Green Bay, Wisc., Harold Sprague, P.E a long time contributor to the
SEAint from Colorado, and Barry H. Welliver PE - an SEAint member located
near Salt Lake City Utah.  In fact, if I am not mistaken, you have had 6 to
8 responses to this discussion - all forwarded to REACH from the SEAint List
and representing opinions from six or seven different states and one outside
country. Without these comments, REACH would have no other discussion going.

My point is that there is a concern - so far it comes from the engineering
community and raises issues associated with engineering, architecture and
building. As a REACH member and employee of NAHBRC, you recognized the
concern - all of which were very specific (especially those from Harold
Sprague, PE) and you concluded that this reinforced the need for REACH. I
happen to believe it reinforces the need for a free, unrestricted discussion
group for building industry professionals - like the SEAint Listservice. I
forward all posts to REACH in hopes of hearing from other REACH List members
(in addition to SEAint members). So why were engineers the only ones to

I suspect that it has much to do with restrictions.

Don, I hope you do not consider this as an attack against REACH. I would not
have taken the effort to start the thread nor would I have taken the effort
to personally forward all responses to this thread so others on your list
could have a chance to continue and build upon the discussion. This
discussion fostered the idea of REACH - a very noble goal - which stands for
"Residential Engineers and Architect Council on Housing".

I was honored, last night, to be voted in as a new board member of the
Building Horizons Program. BHP is governed by the Boys and Girls Club of the
Coachella Valley (a local branch of B&GC of America) whose purpose is to
train high school students how to build homes and to broaden their Horizons
about their future potential. The project this year includes the
construction of three 1400 square foot single family residences in the city
of La Quinta California. Last year other students constructed four homes -
Two in La Quinta, and two in Palm Desert California. The Building Horizons
board members (there are currently 11) include former Republican
Representative Al McCandless, Riverside County Department of Education
administrator Dave Burris, Founder and former Teacher/Contractor Joe Sitko,
a representative of the Sunrise Corporation and a representative from Del
Webb (both of whom will be sponsoring the homes being constructed this year.
There are others to mention but my point is that these individuals volunteer
their efforts to improve Residential construction by properly training our
future Architects, Engineers and Builders.
The Building Industry Association (BIA) is also an avid support of Building
Horizons as is former President Gerald Ford (a long time resident of Rancho
Mirage). I also believe that NAHB is supporting this program through the
BIA. My point is that the problems in residential construction have been
hashed over and over again, but little change has taken place. I believe
that this issue is too important and in need of those who specialize and
have interest in residential construction to participate without having to
pay a membership fee to do so.

Therefore, I fully agree with you - REACH is an important program that needs
to be developed and it needs to be open to participation for individuals and
other professional organizations who are willing to jointly work on
solutions or to instill necessary change to protect our most cherished
possessions - our family's lives and the state of our homes.

>From one who is excited about the potential good that REACH can do and who
wanted to be part of it, I strongly urge you to reconsider the existing
restrictions to the REACH List. I am forced to reconsider my investment in
REACH as both a member and invited contributor until which time the barriers
that NAHBRC imposes on List participation are lifted.

Dennis S. Wish PE

-----Original Message-----
From: REACH List [mailto:reachnet-l(--nospam--at)NAHBRC.ORG]
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 6:18 AM
To: reachnet-l(--nospam--at)NAHBRC.ORG
Subject: Wind Damage in Kansas

Since I am auditing the list service of the Structural Engineers
Assoc. and since there are a few members of that list service that
are also on reachnet, I may not be totally clear on what you on
reachnet have seen, and what was only on the SEA list.
I thought I'd take a minute to comment on some of the "Wind Damage in
Kansas" issues raised on both list services.  As you can see by the
above address, this message is going only to reachnet.
The entire discussion on this topic seems to reinforce the need for
Comments have included:
1. The press often mistakes minor damage for major structural damage
and the performance of residential structures is inaccurately
2.  Inadequately designed homes may fail.
3.  Inadequately constructed (and inspected) homes may fail.
4.  Homes are most typically designed not to collapse (a life safety
approach, not a property protection approach).
5.  Well designed and well built homes will still fail if the design
loads and the factors of safety are exceeded.
We need better communication and cooperation between builders,
architects, engineers, and even building designers to assure that the
building plans and specs are complete and correct.
We may need to examine the system of assuring that the homes are
built in accorddance with the plans and specs ands codes.
We need to agree that we are designing and building to protect life,
not to reduce insurance losses (if that is in fact what we are
I hope this helps you get a handle on the recent e-mails on Wind
Damage in Kansas.
Donald L. Carr
NAHB Research Center, Inc.
400 Prince Georges Blvd.
Upper Marlboro, MD 20774
301-249-4000 x575

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