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Re: Crane Design; SE v. ME

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Och, a wee tiff among the laddies:

>>My experience with MEs is that they.... So, when you tell them that
>>they have to meet the building code they will always disagree...

>>Damn--another ditzy generalization.

For what it's worth, I took Paul Ransom's posting as provocative and
informative, without concluding that the charges rose to the level of an
impeachable offense. It was only about semantics, anyway. 

I understood "tend to" for the proffered word "always", and nodded my
agreement with the part of the generalization that is supported by my own
experiences with ME's in connection with structure-like mechanical
components of buildings. Mr Wright would be a clear exception that does not
necessarily disprove an arguable generality others of us have experienced
(or MAY) and have mitigated in the way Mr Ransom suggests.

My brother is a PE and consultant in both ME and CE, in California, and
manages to endure himself in spite of it. Yet building codes understandably
bug him.

The part Mr Ransom posted that garnered the biggest "Amen" from me was this:

>>Standards of practice [what everyone else out there is doing] are usually
>>inadequate to ferret out anything except the most obvious.

I would go further, and into the misuse of "standards of practice" and its
non-identical twin, "standard of care", misused in weak and misbegotten
attempts to assign blame. These terms, like "patriotism" in political
argument, are the last refuge of the scoundrel.

Look at the definition of SE on the home page of the Seaint Website. Like
all PE branches it " the science and art of..." Now what exactly are
the standards of practice of science, or of art?  Engineering practice does
not reduce itself to strict protocols, like on how to perform a
gizzardectomy in surgical practice. Not if there is to be any latitude left
for the artful, scientific practitioner to adapt methods and solutions to
the situation.

Charles O. Greenlaw, SE    Sacramento CA