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Re: Engineer's Liability vis-a-vis Shop Draw[Subject Prev][Subject Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
- To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
- Subject: Re: Engineer's Liability vis-a-vis Shop Draw
- From: "Laurence B. Oeth III" <viacalx(--nospam--at)europa.com>
- Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:36:11 -0600
Roger Turk wrote: > > Larry, > > I can't cite any court cases concerning an engineers *responsibility* to > review, detailed or otherwise, shop drawings, but I will offer my personal > opinions. > > In my very early days of engineering work after graduation, it was > engineering practice to place reinforcing bar schedules *on the drawings.* > These schedules gave the bar marks, sizes, dimensions, locations of bends, > number of bars, etc. We showed placing drawings. We also required the > fabricator to submit their shop drawings and schedules which were checked > against the schedules that we had on the drawings. I was astounded to find > that frequently the fabricator could/did not copy the schedule correctly. To > this day, when I have had my druthers (i.e., when I'm the boss), I do > *detailed* checks of shop drawings. I have seen the stamps that are placed > on shop drawings that say, "Checked for design intent [whatever *that* is] > only. Quantities and dimensions not reviewed." I have seen stamps on > drawings that just say, "Accepted for Record Purposes Only," with a copy of > the stamped drawing going back to the fabricator. My stamps say, "Approved," > "Approved as Noted," or "Re-Submit," and to Hell with what insurance > companies say we should or should not say! > > I can envision a sharp, or even a not too sharp, lawyer getting an engineer > in the witness chair and asking him/her what "design intent" means. I can > envision that lawyer also asking what would happen to the structure if an > inadequate quantity shown on the shop drawings were installed in the > structure; does the quantity/dimensions shown on the shop drawings satisfy > "design intent;" what would happen to the structure if the dimensions were > incorrect; would the same thing have happened if the engineer had checked > quantities and dimensions, etc., and noted the discrepancy. > > I do not believe that we, as professionals, should try to foist our > *responsibilities* off onto someone else. If we accept our > *responsibilities* we will not be liable. Liability for an action or > inaction occurs only when determined by court, or if we voluntarily accept > the liability. > > A. Roger Turk, P.E.(Structural) > Tucson, Arizona > > Laurence B. Oeth III wrote: > > . > I am researching what, if any, liability attends an engineer's NOT > . > reviewing shop drawings. Or, put alternately, what is our LEGAL > . > responsibility to review shop drawings. > > . > I've heard all the ethical arguments about how we need to check others' > . > interpretations of our design intent, and agree with them strongly. BUT > . > ethics don't = $money$ and business types control our destiny, for the > . > most part. > > . > So what I need are hard, legal cases where engineers have had their > . > liability & responsibility defined regarding the link between design > . > drawings + specs and the reality of construction. Can we contract away > . > our liability for shop drawing review? Would the engineers in Kansas > . > City (Hyatt collapse) have been protected if they specifically & > . > conntractually avoided shop drawing review? > > . > My specific interest is Oregon, California and Florida (where I'm > . > registered) but other federal and state laws may also enlighten. > > . > Thanks for whatever help you may offer. > Thank you for your kind reply. Your attitude mirrors mine and, presumably, most good practicing engineers. If you do come across actual legal case law or statutes, I would appreciate a "heads up." Larry Oeth
- Engineer's Liability vis-a-vis Shop Draw
- From: Roger Turk
- Engineer's Liability vis-a-vis Shop Draw
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