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RE: CE's and SE's on Philippine setting

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I would agree with what Churchill said regarding the CE and SE in the
Philippines. Graduates of Civil Engineering are required to take first the
Board Exams before they can rightfully call themselves Civil Engineers. Upon
graduation, if they decide to go into structural engineering consultancy,
they have the right to call themselves structural engineers. Membership in
the Association of Structural Engineers of the Philippines or ASEP is not
the only factor for calling one's self a structural engineer. It is more of
the profession  that one conducts or practices. Nobody limits anybody from
calling himself a structural engineer as long as he or she practices it.

Here in our country, a  registered civil engineer can sign a structural plan
even if he did not design it personally and that can be approved by the
building official. 

There are no licensed Structural Engineers . All civil engineers can become
structural engineers.
> ----------
> From: 	Churchill Lagrimas[SMTP:solver91(--nospam--at)]
> Reply To: 	seaint(--nospam--at)
> Sent: 	Monday, May 17, 1999 10:26 AM
> To: 	Cleofe, Antonio Ronaldo C.; seaint(--nospam--at)
> Subject: 	Re: CE's and SE's on Philippine setting 
> From: Cleofe, Antonio Ronaldo C. <gttwarc(--nospam--at)>
> Subject: CE's and SE's on Philippine setting
> >Dear Mr. Lagrimas,
> >All you said is true except that the P4800/month salary may be too meager
> >to be even near median salary for new graduates.  I work for Philippine
> >Geothermal, Inc. (a subsidiary of UNOCAL 76) and new graduates
> >(Chem engrs), especially under the Process Engineering Development
> >Program, entry salary may well range from P28,000 to P36,000 monthly,
> >and new operators (Engg undergrad or Mech engr) may get P22,000 to
> >P28,000 monthly and hey, that's well above the median should I say.
> Well, I am glad to hear that feedback. Unfortunately, you must realize the
> salary just mentioned is an exception. Most of our young graduates do not
> enjoy that privilege. I'm sure in Manila and in some cities in the north
> the
> salary is much higher but not as high as you mentioned. Not to forget
> those
> few companies which offer attractive salaries just like yours.
>  I am a CE and have worked with the
> >geothermal industry for over 7 years already and have enjoyed should I
> say
> > rewarding job which I could not have attained working as a CE practicing
> >privately or employed.  After graduating in the early 1990's I worked in
> >the construction industry and have grossed an income too low to even
> >make up for the effects of inflation in our country.  New Civil Engineers
> >now in our country get a better pay but the conditions are the same,
> >i.e. it will not cope up with inflation. So do you wonder why some CE's
> >in our country turn unbecoming in their profession?
> Previous posts on this subject mentioned similar outcomes. I guess you for
> one have decided to leave the CE profession and stick to the geothermal
> industry for good. Though you are just near the 30's (correct?) I am happy
> you found better prospects in life in your choosen field. Your salary
> already provides comfortable living and enough savings if I am not
> mistaken
> and you dont have to worry about inlfation as well. Congratulations.
>  >So will you still say that P4800/month is
> >sufficient to new graduates?  It happens to CE's in our country...
> >Well, structural engineers here are different because SE is not a
> >profession per se but a specialization.  (PRC even has criteria in
> >recognizing SE's in the Philippines) You cannot get directly a license
> >for SE if you're not a CE, right? Or is it a license or a PRC
> >recognition? (do enlighten me,
> >please).  CE's and SE's practice had become closely knitted in the
> >Philippines so that either is practiced individually or both on private
> >firms and the government.  Surely recognized SE's can take consultancy
> fees
> >and this is their advantage, and comparing chicks to roosters, we can
> also
> >apply it to the level of advancement of Civil Engineering in our country
> >and abroad and even to board exams here and other countries.
> The Philippines offer only BS Civil Engineering unlike in other countries
> where they have a BS or BEng and Structural Engg might be offered aside
> from
> Civil Engg. But I'm sure most SE are in specialization.
> In Philippine practice, all our SE are CE. If I'm not mistaken, all of
> them
> have Masters at least! and they belong to the prestigious ASEP
> (Association
> of Structural Engineers in the Phils). However, there is no special
> status/recognition for SE at the PRC. The pillars at PICE did not agree
> with
> this considering that all SE are CE in the first place!!!
> With regards to your comments on the advancement of the profession...
> 1. As far as theory is concerned there should be not much difference since
> we are using the same books and references. But since our universities
> don't
> have and can not afford professors who are experts in their field, what
> can
> we expect? Thus, on the part of the student he should be resourceful and
> smart enough to learn the basics during undergraduate study. Then the
> responsibility is left to to the young engineer.
> I have a friend who went for Masters abroad and he said that in one
> semester
> they can cover the syllabus since emphasis is given on the principles.
> Most
> of the time there are no examples during lectures. Problems are given
> during
> assignments and students do it themselves or they study in groups. But he
> found out the university's level of difficulty of undergraduate exams is
> below his expectations. He sounds arrogant but when he showed me the exam
> paper I believed him!
> I took the CE Licensure Exams in 1991 and the problems were very
> challenging! as far as undergraduate study is concerned but I'm not sure
> how
> it compares to similar exams in other countries. Most countries have PE
> exams. However, I am not a Professional Engineer yet and I have not seen
> PE
> exam papers so I can't share with you its degree of difficulty.
> 2. If you talk about R&D, then don't ever compare!!!
> Sincerely,
> Churchill