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RE: Salary Survey

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I could not agree more.  I think that the engineering societies should be 
spending more time and money promoting the general public's awareness of 
what engineers do for society.  I think we generally have an image problem, 
which simply needs more work, since the nature of our business is generally 
hidden from plain view.  A personal effort from each of us to educate all 
people we have contact with on a daily basis would be an excellent start!!

Antonio J. Arthay, P.E.

-----Original Message-----
From:	Neil Glaser [SMTP:NGlaser(--nospam--at)]
Sent:	Thursday, September 30, 1999 6:46 AM
To:	seaint(--nospam--at)
Subject:	Re: Salary Survey

Scott Maxwell wrote:

> I would disagree with your comments about architects.  Yes, for the most
> part an architect is not trained to do what we do as structural 
> but they typically do have some minimal structural courses.  Can an
> architect do what we do?  Generally, no.  But can we do what an architect
> does?

I disagree with your statements.  I've never seen nor heard of architect 
could do what we do; but I know a lot of them that think they can.  Can I 
what an architect does? No, but I also don't pretend that I can.  I 
sit in meetings or have discussions with architects about the size of
structural members.  They always think that they can suggest the size for 
member; they are always very surprised when they here the size that is 
because it typically is substantially larger than they expect.

Just because someone has had a course in structural engineering does not 
that they understand engineering principles or are capable of making 
based upon the little knowledge they have of the subject.  I had a course 
psychology once; I guess by your theory that means that I am qualified to 
reasonable assumptions that would be about the same as a qualified 
would make.  I can tell you this much, I wouldn't even be able to come 

I am licensed engineer - I took the civil exam.  Therefore, I am 
qualified to practice in any field of civil engineering.  I only practice
structural engineering because I don't feel that I am qualified to practice 
the other disciplines even though I have the background in those 
Exposure to structural engineering doesn't give architects any idea of what 
really takes to design a structure.

The problem is that the public perception is that all buildings are
"structurally designed" by architects.  Architects give the perception that
they are responsible for the stability of the building and not just the
appearance.  This is repeatedly enforced through the media.

Our salaries will not escalate until the public becomes educated about what 
do.  When buildings collapse due to natural causes, the media blames 
on "shoddy construction".  I'll admit poor construction is a large factor 
many failures, but what about the cases where it was poor engineering. 
cases don't seem to gain media attention.  If the public new that the 
the building collapsed and killed 50 people was because an engineer screwed 
they might be willing to pay more for the best engineering services that 
can possibly buy.  Until the perception changes about the importance of our
work, salaries will not escalate.