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RE: Salary Survey

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I graduated from the University of Illinois with a bachelor's degree in
architecture.  The U of I has an option with an emphasis in structural
design.  I went though that program with the intent of doing structural
design.  It was a five year program and it did get into more depth with
regards to structural engineering than the undergraduate civil program than
you described.

I chose to get my license as an architect partly because architects have a
better image than engineers, which at least some of you have acknowledged,
and the state doesn't care whether I am an architect or an engineer.  I
admit that there have been times that I wish I had also gotten a license as
an engineer when I am talking to an engineer or to another architect.  When
someone asks me what kind of work I do, I tell them I am an architect, but I
primarily do structural design.



Roger Davis
SDS Architects, Inc
205 N. Dewey Street
Eau Claire, WI 54703
715-832-1605
rdavis(--nospam--at)sdsarch.com


-----Original Message-----
From:	Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu]
Sent:	Friday, October 01, 1999 11:57 AM
To:	seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject:	RE: Salary Survey

I afraid I was not clear.  When I said "just out of school", I should have
said "just out of school with a bachelor's degree".  I agree that someone
with a master's degree in civil that concentrated in structures will have a
much better understanding.  However, most civil programs on require 3-5
structural classes for their undergrad program.  I know from my school
(Univ. of Michigan) we had to take statics (not really a "structural
course" but a prerequsitie), solid mechanics (see statics), basic struct
analysis (trusses, moment diagrams, influence lines, moment dist, etc.),
basic design (BRIEF intro to steel, concrete, and wood design), steel
design (columns, beams, etc.), concrete design (beams, columns, one-way
slabs), and advanced analysis (energy methods, stiffness, etc.).  I know
the architectural program at Michigan requires three structures courses,
which are basically condensed versions of what I had.  The result is that
they don't necessary understand or get exposed to the theory behind much of
it.

I have worked with several young engineers and may students in civil.  Most
don't always understand the concept of load paths.  Most don't understand
the background on many formulas in the ASD manual for steel.  Heck, there
is a TON of stuff that I don't know and usually learn something new each
day.

I agree with a post from Bill Allen.  Experience is the real essence of a
good structural engineer.  School is very important, but when I am put 6
feet under, more than 90% of my structural knowledge will probably have
come from experience.

Scott

At 05:57 PM 9/30/99 -0500, you wrote:

>Scott --- I disagree.
>
>A civil engineer fresh out of graduate school will have a decent
>understanding of structural behavior and load distribution. They will have
>taken courses in advanced steel, concrete design as well as structural
>dynamics, etc.. (you get the picture).
>
>An architect fresh out of graduate school will have about the same or
>probably less of an understanding of structures as a civil engineer fresh
>out of undergraduate school. This would probably include courses in basic
>steel, concrete, wood design.
>
>An architect fresh out of undergraduate school will probably have little to
>no understanding of structures --- the most that the typical arch undergrad
>student might see in school is a very basic statics and mechanics of
>materials course --- if they're ambitious.