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RE: WHO'S WHO? (Titles mean something!)

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This is EXACTLY why specific titles mean something. I don't want to rain on
a person's parade, but if we begin attributing the label "Structural
Engineer" to someone who is not licensed to do such (yeah, I understand the
politics of licensing and am quite certain that there are probably many
great individuals out there that have not taken the SE exam but are more
qualified to design than some who have passed the exam), the qualifications
of the title become fuzzy. When I was an E.I.T., I didn't dream of
presenting myself as a "structural engineer" because I held the title in
such high esteem.

I love structural engineering and am always impressed by the achievements of
my colleagues (many of you have impressed me over and over again with your
posts) and there should be some sort of guideline to allow someone to take
the title SE. Whether we agree with it or not, in California this is allowed
only after passing the SE exam. Maybe there is more that SEAOC or ASCE can
do to improve the reputation of the profession and, yes, there is much that
we need to do ourselves.

We've already had a discussion regarding automation in engineering, pro's
and con's, but I think it serves here as well. SE's understand that this
automation is merely a tool and that our profession requires personal
judgment and artistry, but I think a lot of others (non-engineers) think
they can just buy a program and they've got it handled.

Sorry for the rambling.


Dave K. Adams, S.E.
Lane Engineers, Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bogdan [mailto:prodomus(--nospam--at)]
Sent: Friday, November 05, 1999 1:49 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)
Subject: WHO'S WHO ?

Dear Sirs,

	yesterday night, being a little upset, instead of going to bed, I
wrote a message : "how's your love life?".
	This morning, when the birds are singing everywhere (to prevent
freezing), and when the sun shines (even if I cannot see it because of those
rainy clouds), I was surprised to find my message inbox full filled with
your answers; thank you very much, I'm really grateful... I already feel
better (can anyone tell me how to knot this bloody rope ?). Jocking ...
	Reading your messages I was trying to imagine who's the author, how
he thinks, so on... And I've had a revelation: there's a lot of YOUNG
peoples watching this exchange of messages, being greedily to achieve new
ideas about how is to be a structural engineer, or how such a man thinks !
	Frankly, this was (still is) one of my reasons when submitted to
this chat list; but I was a little bewildered: the most part of messages are
about "what's the value for rho when...", or "who can tell me how to
calculate...", or, the worst, "how could I modelise a structure..". It's
	I am sick and tired of rules I have to follow; more and more,
ENGINEERING comes closer to lawers activity, trammelled by stupid rules
created for protecting the incompetence of some self-called "engineers", who
simply thought it is more simple to become an engineer than a medical doctor
( wrong: as a bad doctor you kill one man a time, but as a structural
engineer you can kill thousands; don't belive me? watch the results of
Turkish EQ and you will understand!);but we're swerved.
	My problem referes to the REAL meaning of being an engineer.
	Richard and Audra say "Good engineers are always needed -maybe not
fully respected - but needed", while mr.Gerard Madden (who talks
unacceptable dirty to his wife) recomandes me to consider moving to a
country that appreciates my talents and skills, but he "wouldn't suggest the
USA because here, the architects do all the work, right guys".
	Too many engineers, structural engineers, forget who they are and
why they are what they are; I don't say not to give to Cesar what's Cesar's,
it is true the architects are necessary (essential) for a building design,
but they have to realise that structural design is not a handicraft job, but
an artistic one, exactly like their's (being well-known they considere
themselves artists; but they only...). We should remember them that civil
and structural engineering separated from architecture, when the architects
couldnt face the increasing economical problems...
	If we want to be considered like that, we should, first of all,
respect ourselfs; we should not base our skills on simple calculations,
because, due to computers bloom, the architects could belive we are be
replaceble; and do not blame only computers, but also ourselves! !
	For example, if I want to come to USA, how many exams do I have to
pass and how many new rules do I have to learn to design structures who will
face the same physical phenomenons encountered not only in my country, but
all over the world?
	What about architects?
	We are the worst ennemy for us ! They are not for them ! Are they
for us ?