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FW: Steel-Detail: Calculations

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>    I know this issue of "delegating" design of connections has been thrown
> about quite a bit, but I will submit my opinion.  Keep in mind that the
> company I work for is an "East Coast" company and we rarely are involved
> in "West Coast or UBC" projects so I can only give you the Right Coast
> perspective.
>    I view this situation as a convenience to the EOR.  If an EOR spends
> the time to detail each connection, after review of the design drawings
> the fabricator will invariably ask whether certain connections can be
> changed to suit the preferences of his shop (mainly due to equipment
> limitations or for economy).  The EOR will then be required to review the
> proposed changes thereby doubling his effort.  The EOR will always share
> responsibility for the connections whether he delegates this to another PE
> or not, it is just convenient for him to review one set of designs rather
> than design the connections and then review a redesign.  Also, having
> another PE who specializes in connections design provide the work usually
> provides the EOR with some added confidence.  
>    The fabrication is always more economical if the fabricator is allowed
> to use his standard preferred connections.  I know that many Engineers
> will always insist "just do it the way I drew it!" (I know because I used
> to be one who said just that) but there are many ways to design a
> connection and an inflexible attutude will always cost the Owner money.
> If cost is a factor, then the team approach, with each member contributing
> his/her strengths and experiences is the most successful.
>    But again I will state that is my opinion that ultimately the EOR is
> responsible for specifying, reviewing and accepting all structural aspects
> of the project whether it be grade of steel, concrete specifications,
> rebar splice, connection design etc... regardless of who is supplying the
> material or service.
> William Pulyer PE
> Charlotte, NC
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Goldenberg, Frank [SMTP:fgoldenberg(--nospam--at)]
> Sent:	Monday, February 21, 2000 1:50 PM
> To:	danteinc(--nospam--at); BOB
> Cc:	steel-detail(--nospam--at)
> Subject:	RE: Steel-Detail: Calculations 
> This is a subject " dear to my heart".....the EOR delegating connection
> design to the fabricator / detailer. Let me know your comments on this
> issue please.
> 	-----Original Message----- 
> From:   Dante Mena [SMTP:danteinc(--nospam--at)] 
> Sent:   Monday, February 21, 2000 1:05 PM 
> To:     BOB 
> Cc:     steel-detail(--nospam--at) 
> Subject:        Steel-Detail: Calculations 
> 	Bob: 
> I am assuming the meeting is off, but, I have one question.  You were
> prettty emphatic with me the last time we had contact, regarding that the
> detailer should not provide any sort of calculations for connections, or
> design connections for a job.  Now, here I sit, with an office building in
> front of me, and right on the drawings there is a note stipulating that
> the "steel contractor" should provide connection standards, and
> calculations for same. Of course that boils down to me, the detailer.
> Now, I have in the past provided uniform load calculations, and of course,
> connections therefrom, leaving the more complicated calcs to the EOR.
> However, now, as I see this, if I follow the NISD's advice, I should not
> even bid this job.  If I do not provide calcs, surely, there is going to
> be some other detailer out there that will.  If I do provide calcs, then,
> it would seem to me that it is a legal responsiblity that I have assumed,
> and so has the fabricator.  While some fabricators may back off, yet, I am
> sure there are also fabricators out there who will mince no bones about
> going after the job anyway, and sacrifice those who want to stand by
> principle.  Now, you tell me how this should be handled, or is there even
> an official position.
> 	Thanks 
> Dante