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Re: Steel Joists - Shop drawing review

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"Sherman, William" wrote:

> Do you run an analysis on each joist member to check stresses? If not, do
> you accept liability for the joist members regardless of whether they have
> been designed by an engineer or not?

No.  I may not have worded my reply clearly.  I was thinking from the point of
view of the joist fabricator.  All the reputable fabricators employ at least one
PE, licensed in at least the state of manufacture.  All designs are his/her
responsibility.  Thus I see no advantage in requiring a stamp - the chief
engineer is responsible whether their stamp is affixed or not.

> The way I see it, I require a PE stamp
> on joist designs to ensure that the joists have been designed by an engineer
> for the loads I've specified. I am still liable for the proper specification
> of applied loads and for "applicability" and interface of the joists with
> the remainder of the structure. But the joist manufacturer should be liable
> if an individual joist member was not designed properly. A PE stamp helps
> ensure that they take responsibility for their portion of the design.

While I disagree with the last sentence of this paragraph, the rest is right on,
and if a stamp gives you, your client, or your attorney a warm fuzzy feeling
then you should require it.  Just make sure you place the requirement in the bid
package, because that is not the normal practice within the joist industry, and
some manufacturers may charge extra for the service.

>
>
> But there is a question as to whether their PE stamp should be from the
> state where the joist is being installed or from the state of manufacture of
> the joist. Normally PE stamps should be from the state where installation is
> to occur. But for such a premanufactured component, an argument can be made
> that the EOR takes responsibility for the joist applicability to the
> specific structure and the joist manufacturer's PE stamp is solely to verify
> that the members have been designed for the specified loads. But what do
> state PE laws require? Is joist design "engineering" or is it
> "manufacturing"?

Both.  A steel joist is manufactured in accordance with an engineered design.
There, did that clear everything up?  :)

If the joists were to be installed by the manufacturer than it would make sense
for the seal to be in the state of installation.  But they are a manufactured
product.  The last involvement by the manufacturer is in the state of
manufacturer, so the seal should be in the state of manufacture.

By the way, I am not lobbying for a particular position for personal reasons.  I
am an independent consultant in the steel and joist industries, not an
employee.  As such, I review many designs by various manufacturers.  I
personally stand to make more money if their manufacturing designs need to be
stamped in the state of installation.  But I see no value in such a requirement,
and placing such a requirement will only raise the cost and time for completion,
and further the belief that all us design engineers place all that stuff in our
specifications only to duck our own responsibilities.

Phil