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RE: Who wants to be a doctor?

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It would have been nice to have been able to go into connection design
in the undergraduate classes I took on steel and concrete design, but
unfortunately it just didn't happen.  The time that it takes to cover
all the things that really need to be covered just isn't there in most
undergraduate programs.

I don't want to be a doctor, I love being a structural engineer.  Having
the opportunity to get my MCE, helped me to better understand what I was
taught as an undergrad, and solve building and structural problems more
efficiently and effectively.  I would have loved to have taken a course
on spec writing or constuctability, but it wasn't offered.  

I am glad to know that a university local to me, which just recently
added a college of engineering (Rowan University, formerly Glassboro
State College)is integrating specification writing, bidding procedures
and other relevant "real life" engineering issues into its curriculum,
but to really cover all that the graduate should know would take nearly
the time it does to get both a BCE and MCE.

Albert J. Meyer, Jr., P.E.
Martin-Espenlaub Engineering


-----Original Message-----
From: Acie Chance [mailto:achance(--nospam--at)lacsd.org]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 7:34 PM
To: 'seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org'
Subject: Who wants to be a doctor?



     I am truly amazed at the dialog on what an engineer should be. What
does a 
Masters or Ph.D.. degree have to do with finding solution to problems.
Analyze 
the stress level from a supposed earthquake in a frame is not as
important as 
knowing the connections should be at a lower stress then the beams. With
all 
the classes at the masters level very little was taught about design of 
connections and no one talked about the amount of connection failures
verse 
member failure. In steel design we learned to design the lightest beams
and 
concrete classes taught the least amount of steel. I must be doing the
other 
kinds of structures as the ability to build the structures quickly is
easily as 
important as the cost of the steel. There were no classes in
constructability 
offered. There were no classes offered in specification writing. These
are some 
of the things which make a real world engineer good.
     If you feel you do not get enough money in your paycheck find a new
job. 
It will only take you eight years to become the doctor you want to be
but did 
not take the time to become. It takes even less time to become a lawyer.
As for 
me I am an engineer and do not like being compared to either. I solve
problems 
on how to build structures. I do not dispense pills of vast amounts of 
verbiage. I know what I contribute to the world and do not need others
to tell 
me what it is. Your pay is between the doctor who need 8 years of
additional 
school and the iron worker who only has a high school diploma. That is
where it 
belongs. If you chose engineering for the money you chose poorly.
     Using the S.E. or P.E. license to limit immigration really upsets
me. This 
country was made up of many different races and nationalities. Anyone
who loves 
freedom will have problems with this attitude. This is the country where
any 
one can become what ever they want. We should keep it that way.
     One last point. A person who gets a Ph.D. to work in the
engineering field 
will find few jobs which will put his additional knowledge to full use.
Any 
person with a Ph.D.. can do ordinary structural design work, but most
want to 
do high profile work. This is the reason  they took the additional
classes. The 
problem is there is not much of this high profile work out here. The
majority 
of work is less then three story and can be done by a engineer with a BS
and do 
diligence to the laws of static. There is no need for the owner of a
warehouse 
to pay for a push over analysis when a simple UBC static analysis with 
attention to connection will prevent collapse of the building.
     The first draft of this e-mail was deleted by accident. It was more

emotional and much more colorful. I believe the first draft was eaten by
my 
computer to protect me from making irrational statement. This is a very
user 
friendly computer.

Acie P. Chance     Engineer, Structural problem solver.