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RE: Bar Joists

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Just some (personal) comments....

Maybe I'm as green as you, maybe I'm not. I *just* got my S.E. designation
in 1984 :o).  But, I didn't know that an H-series joist is an older version
of a K-series. This is because I don't work with bar joists every day. I
would suspect if I had been hired to evaluate an existing building
containing H-series joists, I probably would have posed a similar question
to the list. Soooo....just because one doesn't have an intimate familiarity
with bar joists, that doesn't mean he/she's not a structural engineer.

Yes, the inquirer *could* have called someone else, but, as you know, this
list is a tremendous resource and is perfect for situations just like these.
Why ignore it? Maybe we prefer to spend the bandwidth bashing each other, I
dunno. I am truly amazed (and disappointed) how more attention was paid to
the inquirer's credentials than answering the (expletive deleted) question.

Why do we engineers feel the need to bash our colleagues so casually?

Sheesh!

So, for those of you who would like to ask a question (even if it appears
stoopid at first blush), go ahead and ask. You know where to file the flame
mail. In the meantime (and once you weed out the trash), I'm sure you will
get the information you need.

Regards,

Bill Allen, S.E. (CA #2607)
ALLEN DESIGNS
Consulting Structural Engineers
Laguna Niguel, CA
http://www.AllenDesigns.com
V (949) 365-5696
F (949) 249-2297


||-----Original Message-----
||From: Keith Fix [mailto:kefix(--nospam--at)yahoo.com]
||Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 2:40 PM
||To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
||Subject: RE: Bar Joists
||
||
||Jim Persing,
||
||I appreciate your reply, and anticipate several.  I hope this
||will serve to
||answer them all.  I did not check Todd Hill's credentials,
||nor do I check
||anyone else's, unless I need to rely on their expertise.
||Please forgive my
||paranoia when I read structural questions coming out of an
||architect's office:
||I work in one and have developed healthy caution.
||
||BUT, even someone as green as me knows what that an H-series
||is an older
||version of a K-series joist.  The lack of recognition
||demonstrates a lack of
||familiarity with the work required.  While I do not doubt Mr.
||Hill's competence
||to practice engineering, I am concerned that he is not
||familiar with the old
||bar joist series.  For that reason, I concluded that Mr. Hill is not a
||"structural" engineer, and should seek the counsel of one who
||is, as opposed to
||posting to an email list and hoping for the right answer
||(this time he got
||several).  If I am in error, I express my deepest apologies
||to Todd Hill, PE.
||
||As we all know, there are often postings to the list asking
||for information
||about a "QEI198741LKASJD" or some other bizarre and long
||obsolete material
||designation.  The miriad answers follow, some good, some bad.  In this
||particular case, I felt it worthwhile to suggest that some
||"face-to-face"
||discussion would be helpful, or even a simple phone call.
||
||Also, since when is it bad for structural engineers to get
||paid for their
||specialized knowledge and experience.  If a buddy of mine in
||a competing office
||had called and asked me that question, I would have billed
||him the half hour it
||would take to gather the information at my disposal and
||prepare a formal and
||complete answer (as I have done before).  If he were a
||regular client, I would
||have billed it to overhead, marketing, or the project (were
||it still active).
||If I weren't familiar with the project, and couldn't review
||the drawings, and
||felt the guy (or gal) needed help I couldn't provide, I'd
||suggest (s)he hire
||someone to help out, which is exactly what I did.
||
||P.S.: This gets billed under "personal", !@#$%^.
||
||P.P.S.: Every firm I've worked with gets calls about old
||projects.  I thought
||that was "part and parcel" of our work.  Apparently not.
||
||Keith Fix, PE CA (Structural)
||Cromwell Architects Engineers
||Little Rock, Arkansas
||
||--- Jim Persing <jpersing(--nospam--at)ncfweb.net> wrote:
||> Keith Fix, PE,
||>
||> I think your response to Todd Hill could be directed to
||just about all
||> inquiries on this list but that is not the purpose of these
||inquiries and
||> responses.  We're here to help our fellow engineers and
||share resources.
||> I'm pleased that there were several helpful responses to
||his question.
||>
||> Jim Persing, SE
||>
||> P.S. - It did not take too much effort to find that Mr.
||Todd Hill is a
||> licensed engineer in the State of Oklahoma, the state of his project
||> location.
||>
||> P.P.S. - My name is on a lot of plans out there but if I'm
||still around in
||> 22 years I hope nobody will be calling me asking about a
||plan I signed over
||> 2 decades before!
||>
||> Keith Fix wrote....
||> Todd:
||>
||> Please call a structural engineer in your area and ask him
||to help you.
||> Although many on this list can certainly answer such a
||simple question, it
||> would be appropriate that you pay for the information, and
||have an engineer
||> available to help with any related questions you might have.
||>
||> You might also consider calling the engineer-of-record,
||whose stamp should
||> be
||> on the drawings.
||>
||> Keith Fix, PE
||> Cromwell Architects Engineers
||> Little Rock, AR
||>
||> --- Todd Hill <thill(--nospam--at)tkarch.com> wrote:
||> > I have structural drawings dated 1978 for a project in Oklahoma.
||> > The drawings call out a 18H5 joist on 5'-0" centers,
||spanning 30'-0".
||> > Anyone know what the capacity for this joist would be?
||> > Anyone know what the history of this lettering for steel joists?
||> > Most recent catalogs I have, list K series joists.
||> > I also have older information on J series joists.
||> > What do the letters actually mean?
||> >
||> > Todd Hill
||> > TK Architects, Inc.
||> > 816-842-7552 ext. 233
||> >
||
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