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RE: Wage Busting

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First off, I think you are mixing comments from multiple people and accusing
one of use (or maybe all of us) as being bitter. Speaking for myself (Dennis
Wish, PE) you never provided more information about your firm other than
your personal dissatisfaction for hiring qualified professionals who might
want to "take over your business". Considering the original picture you
presented to the List, our comments were accurate. In fact, our comments are
still accurate if you feel as you had prior to this sudden rush to present a
more complete picture of your practice.
You also contradict yourself:
On 3/22 you stated:
"We've found that the so-called "over qualified/senior" workers aren't
interested in designing buildings.

They want to "manage projects"; own a piece of my firm; get paid a lot of
money and tell me how to run my business."

On 3/23 you stated:
"I don't put anyone down who wants to be in management... Just the ones that
want to come in, take what I've built and make it their own.

If that's the case...then they can do what I did... Have a little guts and
start their own firm!"

Then later today (3/23) you add:

"My partner and I have made firm ownership available to our associates,
(from the US, by the way...)"

Sounds pretty contradictory to me! BTW, I don't know of any professionals
who will apply for work with a firm, walk in the door and want to take over.
If they exist, I would venture to say they are the exception to the rule.
Most expect to spend a good deal of their engineering career proving their
abilities to their employer in order to seek advancement through the ranks.

On the issue of H-1B;
On 3/23 you stated:
"Finally, after all the training and money I have invested in my H1-B visa
engineer from Germany, I sincerely HOPE he wants to obtain his green card
and become a
permant employee!!"

As I clearly stated in my last message that you seem to feel is so "bitter",
helping an H-1B Visa Engineer obtain a green card is not the purpose of the
program and this is one of the strongest arguments against H-1B. I really
think you need to read the document - something you should have done before
filing a Labor Condition Application for your H-1B hire.

One more question. You seem not to be clear on the H-1B provisions. Have you
filed a LCA (Labor Condition Application) for your German Employee? The
search database contains over 615,000 LCA's and is fairly complete, however
when searching under your company name, there were no hits - no matches.
Firms must file for an LCA and gain approval before a Temporary Visa is
issued. These records can be searched by you or anyone at the following

However, as I've noted, your company does not seem to have an LCA on file.
Did you hire and file an LCA or did you obtain your employee through an H-1B
"Bodyshop". For those interested:
"The largest users of H-1B visas are bodyshops. An H-1B bodyshop is a
company that specializes in providing H-1B workers to other companies. The
H-1B worker is officially remains an employee of the bodyshop, but works at
a company site and takes direction from the company's management, and acts
like an employee in every way except that the worker gets paid through the

Most large H-1B bodyshops are either foreign companies or companies owned by

To quote [former]Secretary Reich:

"First, it has become increasingly evident that the H-1B program is being
utilized by some as the basis for building businesses which are dependent on
the labors of foreign workers, in some cases in unfair competition with U.S.
workers and those U.S. businesses that employ mostly domestic workers.""

H-1B FAQ Website at:

Makes me wonder whose being up front here?

Dennis S. Wish, PE

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Fisher [mailto:dfisher(--nospam--at)]
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:59 AM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)
> Subject: RE: Wage Busting
> Rest assured that I have removed my return receipt function from my email.
> I'm not sure where any of these comments you make are coming from.
> Of 20 staff, only one is an H1-B visa much for the disdain
> of american workers....
> We have active recruiting on many college campuses...
> My partner and I have made firm ownership available to our associates,
> (from the US, by the way...)
> As a side note, a friend of mine (36) who has a small architectural firm
> recently "paid up"
> to hire a "qualified senior level professional"....
> Its been nothing short of a disaster...the guy has gotten into numerous
> arguments with clients,
> contractors and my friend....(telling him how to better run his already
> sucessful business....*laugh*)
> The investment I speak of applies to anyone I is my
> hope that all
> my staff that I train remain and make productive stay with me to grow and
> mature in their one has left so far....!!
> (must be a sh**ty place to work!)
> My hiring of a German engineer was the result of many factors...lack of
> local availability
> of qualified structrual engineers, his experince on similar projects in
> europe, and
> his ability to communicate with our clients in Germany and Austria.
> Why would I recruit him, pay him well and put him in a position of
> leadership to send him back to Germany?
> It appears you are quite bitter...I'm sorry you feel the need to criticise
> me on such a personal level when
> you don't even know me.
> Greedy,
> thats a laugh!!!!
> David L. Fisher, SE,PE
> Senior Principal
> Fisher+Horos Structural Engineers
> 372 West Ontario
> Chicago, Illinois 60610
> 312.573.1701
> 312.573.1726 fax