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Re: DSA & EOR's stamp

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The rationale is that it is not good to have more than one engineer for a
job. In case of failure it is difficult to determine whose fault it is.
If one follows the logic of having multiple engineers on a job, you could
have one for the foundation, one for the wall and another for the roof.
In the old days we used to stamp "structural only" on the plans but this
changed years ago. We now have to stamp every sheet which has any
structural details or items.

Stan Scholl, P.E.
Laguna Beach, CA

On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 16:14:57 -0700 "JHilzman"
<jhilzman(--nospam--at)> writes:
> Bill,
> I will admit that we have not done work in CA as of yet, and based 
> upon the info. provide herein - probably will avoid doing so in the 
> future.  I just can not understand the logic - if a licensed 
> engineer with the space-frame company stamps his cals's and 
> drawings, and the EOR stamps his interfacing calc's and details = a 
> fully engineered and stamped project. It just seems redundant and 
> perfectly suited to the wishes of our out-of-control bureaucracy and 
> lets-sue-everyone legal system. Like James asked, does DSA require 
> the EOR to stamp Vulcraft joist and deck drawings and calc's ?
> James like they often suggest - if someone has a gun in your back or 
> knife at your throat, maybe you should just give them your wallet.  
> But then, stay the hell away from that neighborhood !!!
> John Hilzman, CEO
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Williston L. Warren, IV - S.E. 
>   To: seaint(--nospam--at) 
>   Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 10:56 AM
>   Subject: DSA & EOR's stamp
>   James,
>   Signing drawings from specialty suppliers is a fact of life for 
> the EOR in CA for schools, you could have designed the system 
> yourself and not used the prefab space truss.
>   As noted in an earlier email, with was discussed at length in late 
> 98 and you will get alot of comments from those who have not worked 
> on CA School projects and the DSA saying do not sign.  But it is a 
> DSA requirement and if you do not sign the truss drawings, the job 
> stops.  You just have to do whatever you need to do, to verify 
> everything to your satisfaction.  
>   If this includes more information from manufacturer, then require 
> that additional information.  I provide structural calcs for 
> skylight structures, not the 4x8 bubble, but the 20 foot by 60 foot 
> shed or pyramid of all sizes, and we provide enough information in 
> calcs and analysis to satisfy the EOR.
>   You can choose to "flat out refuse", but you will most likely be 
> removed from this project (read your rfp info carefully), and may 
> not get another from this client.  If you read the licensing 
> information closely it does not say you cannot stamp and sign work 
> by others, it just indicates the responsible party, do the work that 
> enables you to perform the DSA requirement.  
>   This is not a new requirement, the EORs have been doing it for a 
> long time, remember your choosing a prefab component does not make 
> any difference to the DSA, it just made your work simpler.  It is 
> just like using computer software and claiming that the software 
> made the mistake and it is not your fault, instead of the software 
> you would always analyze it by hand.
>   Williston "Bill" L. Warren, IV - S.E.
>   Structural Engineering SOLutions
>   Newport Beach, California
>   >From: "JHilzman" <jhilzman(--nospam--at)>
>   >To: <seaint(--nospam--at)>
>   >Subject: Re: DSA & EOR's stamp
>   James,
>   Just flat out refuse to do it !  Maybe a legal letter from your 
> attorney and
>   insurance carrier should be forthcoming after you JUST REFUSED TO 
> DO IT !
>   Don't start down that path - before you know it they'll be 
> demanding
>   massages !!!
>   John Hilzman, CEO
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "James Lin" <se3949(--nospam--at)>
>   To: <seaint(--nospam--at)>
>   Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 10:09 AM
>   Subject: DSA & EOR's stamp
>   > We are designing a school project in Los Angeles area
>   > which includes a new pavilion (pre-fab steel space
>   > frame over the concrete. columns).
>   >
>   > The space frame manufacturer designed (using their
>   > in-house computer program), stamped, and signed the
>   > space frame drawings/calculations.
>   >
>   > We (the engineer of record) designed, stamped, and
>   > signed OTHER structural drawings.
>   >
>   > Now the DSA required us (the Engineer of Record) to
>   > put our stamp and signature over the space frame
>   > design!!
>   >
>   > How you handle this situation?
>   >
>   > Thanks,
>   >
>   > P.S. Just like "Will you put your stamp & signature
>   > over the VULCRAFT steel joists/girders design
>   > drawings/calculation?"
>   >
>   > James Lin, SE
>   > IDS, Inc.
>   >

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