Return to index: [Subject] [Thread] [Date] [Author]

RE: AISC Latest Move - Different View Point

[Subject Prev][Subject Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Tom,
I am usually the last to play Devil's Advocate - but answer this:
1. If your employer did not have the books and you borrowed one from a
friend, would you be violating the copyright by copying the values from your
friends book (or is there limited legal reproduction as there is on college
campuses for photocopying materials used in class).( I think it is).
2. If you leave the firm and take your calculator with you and later use the
values in the calculator without being employed by the owner of the original
books, have you violated the copyright? (I think it is)
3. If you own the book and copy all the properties into a spreadsheet for
your own use in the firm, is this a violation of the copyright? (I don't
think it is)
4. If you take the spreadsheet with you after you resign from the firm, is
this a violation? (I think it is)

What do you think?

Dennis

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Higgins [mailto:thiggins(--nospam--at)grpmack.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 5:47 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: Re: AISC Latest Move - Different View Point
>
>
> I assert that I have the right to use the information contained
> in the AISC tables.  Why?  The "fair use" doctrine of copyright
> law.  After all, people purchase books and other published matter
> in order to use them, in some fashion.  I have purchased, or my
> employers have purchased for me, several AISC manuals.  I can see
> six of them from where I'm sitting.  There are probably 40 AISC
> manuals in this office as a whole.  They were expensive.
>
> We bought all those manuals so we could use the data in them to
> perform engineering calculations, prepare drawings, et cetera.
> When I need a section modulus I copy it out of the manual.  I am
> not violating the copyright when I do so.  Moreover, if I input
> the section modulus in my calculator and save it to memory, it's
> still fair use.  If I put it in a spreadsheet or Mathcad document
> and use it over and over again, it's still fair use.  And as far
> as I'm concerned, if I use AISC manual data that has been
> incorporated in purchased software, that ought to be fair use
> too.  Maybe it will take a court case to settle the matter, but I
> believe the engineering community has paid plenty for this
> information already, and it is fair to use it freely.
>
> Tom Higgins
>
> >>> Mark Gilligan <MarkKGilligan(--nospam--at)compuserve.com> 04/21 10:03 AM >>>
> Greg stated :
>
>
> >>>1. Since AISC owns the copyright for the material database and the
> information in the steel manuals then they should be allowed to
> provide the
> information for free or for a charge.  Seems like even typing the
> information from the copyrighted manual would still be an infringement of
> their copyright (if they wanted to pursue it)... I am no lawyer
> though...just my opinion.<<<
>
> It is not a given  that AISC can copyright the member properties data.  It
> is well established that you cannot copy raw data such as that in
> the phone
> directory.  I would classify the member dimensions the same as phone
> numbers.  All of the arguments that AISC has put forth could equally apply
> to the phone books.  The reason that I am emphasising the comparison to
> phone books is because this issue has been clearly established by
> case law.
>
> AISC can copyright the steel manual and the codes and standards.  They can
> probably also copyright the format in which the data is presented, as long
> as it is not the only possible format, but they cannot copyright
> the member
> dimension data itself.
>
> By threatening legal action AISC is creating a lot of ill will and undoing
> a lot of the good done by their staff such as Charlie Carter.
>
> Mark Gilligan
>
> *
> *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> *   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
>
>
> *
> *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> *   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> *   site at: http://www.seaint.org


* 
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers 
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To 
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
*   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you 
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted 
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web 
*   site at: http://www.seaint.org