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RE: DSA & EOR's stamp

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During the 80's when we looked at a steel building  some cities required
that one engineer shall assume the responsibility of the engineer of record
for the entire structure. The steel building was designed and  manufactured
out of town and shipped by the supplier and a local engineer designed the
foundation system  for it. Butler , Soule , Varco pruden are some of these
companies that manufacture steel buildings.
The foundation design engineer typically designed the foundations for all
the reactions from the steel design calculations. They were then asked that
one of them I.e.  either the foundation design engineer or the steel design
engineer must sign the entire document and assume to be the engineer of
I believe this was a reaction to the Kansas city failure , that some how
made people deduce that there was  a need for one engineer to be aware of
what's going on and be in overall responsible charge.
Later on in the 90's the board of professional engineers made a statement
that there is no need for one engineer to sign the entire job and individual
engineer can sign parts of the job and be responsible for that portion that
they signed, This holds until today.
A good practice as you said is to have the engineer of record sign the truss
calculations or the  steel components plans etc.. saying " reviewed and no
exception taken"
This way the engineer of record will examine the shop drawings and make sure
that all drag trusses have the correct drag loads  etc... This is to check
for conformance with his/her basic design and we try to  practice this today
on non DSA jobs I.e. we ask for shop drawing stamp.  As for the DSA as Bill
said DSA rules have to be adhered to by the reason that the plans and
calculations have to be approved under the DSA  rules. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris TSE [mailto:cyltse(--nospam--at)]
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 9:18 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)
Subject: Re: DSA & EOR's stamp

We did some projects in the past under the DSA jurisdication. Some of those
projects involved prefab trusses designed by others under our auspice. We
had not been required to affix our EOR stamp on those document prepared by
others than our "Shop Drawing" stamp. Naturally when the shop drawings came,
we made sure those designed in full compliance with our specifications and
built according to the approved set of document. In this case, is there much
indifference between shop drawing review acceptance as comparing to EOR
stamp? or are we still missing some links in between?  Thank you for your
Chris Tse 
Sunnyvale, CA 

"Williston L. Warren, IV - S.E." wrote: 

James, Signing drawings from specialty suppliers is a fact of life for the
EOR in CA for schools, you could have designed the system yourself and not
used the prefab space truss. As noted in an earlier email, with was
discussed at length in late 98 and you will get alot of comments from those
who have not worked on CA School projects and the DSA saying do not sign.
But it is a DSA requirement and if you do not sign the truss drawings, the
job stops.  You just have to do whatever you need to do, to verify
everything to your satisfaction. If this includes more information from
manufacturer, then require that additional information.  I provide
structural calcs for skylight structures, not the 4x8 bubble, but the 20
foot by 60 foot shed or pyramid of all sizes, and we provide enough
information in calcs and analysis to satisfy the EOR. You can choose to
"flat out refuse", but you will most likely be removed from this project
(read your rfp info carefully), and may not get another from this client.
If you read the licensing information closely it does not say you cannot
stamp and sign work by others, it just indicates the responsible party, do
the work that enables you to perform the DSA requirement. This is not a new
requirement, the EORs have been doing it for a long time, remember your
choosing a prefab component does not make any difference to the DSA, it just
made your work simpler.  It is just like using computer software and
claiming that the software made the mistake and it is not your fault,
instead of the software you would always analyze it by hand.  
Williston "Bill" L. Warren, IV - S.E. 
Structural Engineering SOLutions 
Newport Beach, California   >From: "JHilzman" < jhilzman(--nospam--at)
<mailto:jhilzman(--nospam--at)> > 
>To: < seaint(--nospam--at) <mailto:seaint(--nospam--at)> > 
>Subject: Re: DSA & EOR's stamp 

Just flat out refuse to do it !  Maybe a legal letter from your attorney and

insurance carrier should be forthcoming after you JUST REFUSED TO DO IT ! 
Don't start down that path - before you know it they'll be demanding 
massages !!! 

John Hilzman, CEO 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Lin" < se3949(--nospam--at) <mailto:se3949(--nospam--at)> > 
To: < seaint(--nospam--at) <mailto:seaint(--nospam--at)> > 
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 10:09 AM 
Subject: DSA & EOR's stamp 

> We are designing a school project in Los Angeles area 
> which includes a new pavilion (pre-fab steel space 
> frame over the concrete. columns). 
> The space frame manufacturer designed (using their 
> in-house computer program), stamped, and signed the 
> space frame drawings/calculations. 
> We (the engineer of record) designed, stamped, and 
> signed OTHER structural drawings. 
> Now the DSA required us (the Engineer of Record) to 
> put our stamp and signature over the space frame 
> design!! 
> How you handle this situation? 
> Thanks, 
> P.S. Just like "Will you put your stamp & signature 
> over the VULCRAFT steel joists/girders design 
> drawings/calculation?" 
> James Lin, SE 
> IDS, Inc. 

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