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Re: Cutoff Wall In Concrete Transition

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Syed,

Again, it sounds like you are asking about whether the wall transition is necessary, not how to design if indeed you determine its need. I was simply stating that structural engineers may nothave the "expert" opinion you seek to clearly state the transition's need and consequences when it's lacking. Your post made it sound like you already know why it's necessary and you were seeking confirmation. I realize it is a structural design issue - once you know it's necessary. I take it, from your previous posts, that you know how to do that part since it sounds like your are experienced and have a strong engineering sense.

By all means, you should not hesistate to ask this list and most any topic and you are likely to get an answer that is correct. People with knowledge on great many things beyond engineering,like Mr. Polhemus, are sure to provide you an unbiased open minded discussion the get to the "truth" of virtually any topic you can think of. He will also be able to trace the root of all the problems globally to the former president and his merry men. :)

respectfully.
-Gerard ( no mister :) )
Sam Francisco, CA
>>> syedfaiz23(--nospam--at)hotmail.com 05/31/01 17:51 PM >>>
Mr. Gerard
A cut off wall is a vertical wall at the end of the concrete slab-on-grade 
in the outlet & inlet of the cross drainage structure. This cut off wall is 
basically provided to prevent or delay water percolation beneath the slab. 
Mind you, this concrete slab together with the cut off wall ( at the inlet 
or outlet ) are termed as TRANSITION. Although its a hydraulic design issue 
but its a structural problem as well. Many an engineer,  especially the 
contractor's engineers donot understand its importance hence resist its 
incusion in the shop drawing simply its cumbersome to build. My question 
was therefore directed towards those experts who have the experience of 
design & detailing of cross drainage structures ( who would understand this 
issue better ) to advise me if this cut off wall was really necessary & 
without which we could expect damages to the whole transition itself. Thank 
you.
SYED FAIZ AHMAD
SENIOR STRUCTURAL ENGINEER
SAUDI OGER LTD.,
RIYADH, SAUDI ARABIA.


>From: "Gerard Madden" <GMadden(--nospam--at)mplusl.com>
>Reply-To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
>To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
>Subject: Re: Cutoff Wall In Concrete Transition
>Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:11:35 -0700
>
>Syed,
>
>You probably didn't get a response because your question appears to be more 
>of a hydraulic-fluids type question, not necessarily structural ... because 
>you are asking about the need for this cut-off wall. I for one, am not sure 
>what you are describing, sounds like a baffle or weir type of thing, but I 
>forgot all that stuff the day after the PE exam and hope not to encounter 
>it again. Just a guess, but is this something to do with the water hammer 
>effect ???
>
>
>Check to see is ASCE has a similar list service with a greater percentage 
>of experts in this field. I'd venture to guess that the vast majority on 
>this list are experienced in buildings, bridges, and other above surface 
>structures, so there are only a few who could help. Plus the fact that 
>there are maybe 50 people who actually answer questions on this list which 
>I believe has subscribers numbering in the 1000's.
>
>Good luck,
>-gerard
>
> >>> syedfaiz23(--nospam--at)hotmail.com 05/31/01 05:01PM >>>
>Fellow Engineers
>a week ago i had posted a question on the LIST about the afore mentioned
>subject, unfortunately i am yet to see any response on the same. Iam 
>posting
>this question  again with a hope some expert will find time to respond
>appropriately.
>" iam designing & detailing a buried concrete box channel for storm water
>drainage. It has a oncrete transition both at inlet & outlet. From my
>experience i know every concrete transition should have a cutoff wall at 
>the
>end. There is a resistance from some quarter for putting a cutoff wall in
>the shop drawing. According to them its not necessary. i seek opinion of 
>the
>experts, on design of hydraulic structures, on this issue. Is cutoff wall
>necessary or not in a concrete transition for a cross drainage structure?"
>Thank you all in advance.
>SYED FAIZ AHMAD
>SENIOR STRUCTURAL ENGINEER
>SAUDI OGER LTD.
>RIYADH, SAUDI ARABIA.
>******
>
>
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