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Re: Government Service WAS: Sean Pedro's Attack

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Gentlemen/Women
Well, i have no intention of indulging myself in this rhetoric thats going on, on this LIST for the past one week or so, but i couldn't just resist the temptation. As a student ( especially during my masters studies ) & as a professional engineer, i have had the opportunity of conducting literature survey on a host number of issues. I have extensively used the researches done by many a government agencies of U.S; namely:
-U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS
-U.S. DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR
-U.S. BUREAU OF RECLAMATION
-U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
-E.P.A(ENVIRONMENT PROTECTION AGENCY)
-U.S. DEPARTMENT OF MINING
-ETC,ETC.
Frankly speaking,all these encounters have led me to an impression that U.S Government Departments were different than the Government Departments else where, especially in the developing countries. But after following all these rhetorics & opinions on this LIST iam beginning to be convinced the Government Departments & the Government employees every where are the same, U.S is no exception.
SYED FAIZ AHMAD
SENIOR STRUCTURAL ENGINEER
SAUDI OGER LTD
RIYADH, SAUDI ARABIA

From: sscholl2(--nospam--at)juno.com
Reply-To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: Government Service WAS: Sean Pedro's Attack
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:13:19 -0700

This is to let all of those who think that government engineers are those
who have not made it in private enterprise, know that there are
incompetents, lazy and inefficient people inside every organization I
have been with and this includes State government, City government,
Standard Oil, non-profit (Portland Cement Assn.) and 4 different
consulting firms in several states as well as being self employed for the
past 7 yrs.. My experience is that there are about 10% of the people in
every organization who are not pulling their weight. Anyone who thinks
there is no stress in government jobs is ignorant. Also it is quite
common for terminations in government. I have personally terminated more
than 50 over the years in City government- for all kinds of reasons
including incompetentcy, wrecking a vehicle, causing problems with the
public, horseplay, etc. Many of those have found a home in private
enterprise.

Stan Scholl, P.E.
Laguna Beach, CA

On Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:05:11 -0500 "David Fisher" <dfisher(--nospam--at)fplushse.com>
writes:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jones, Mark A [mailto:Mark.A.Jones(--nospam--at)jacobs.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 8:58 AM
> To: 'dfisher(--nospam--at)fplushse.com'
> Subject: Government Service WAS: Sean Pedro's Attack
>
>
> - David Fisher [mailto:dfisher(--nospam--at)fplushse.com] wrote:
>
> >Its just been my experience, that's all.
>
> >Why else would someone not work in private industry?
>
> >They want a guaranteed job, low stress, flag day off and no
> accountability.
>
>
> I highly resent that remark!  I was a civilian
> [keyword, civilian!!]
> working for the Department of
> the Navy for 10 years designing ships.  I still have many friends
> who are
> there.   I have now worked in private industry for 6 years.  So I
> have seen
> both sides, have you?
> [I have in that I pay taxes and I have to deal with government
> bureaucrats
> on a daily basis that have "washed out"of private industry]
> Contrary to your statements.  The government is not a
> guaranteed job; I was layed off in a downsizing
>
> [again, civilian].
>
>  It is not low stress and
> no accountability; when was the last time one of YOUR designs went
> into a
> war zone?
> [maybe not a "warzone" per se, but they have been subjected to
> IRA terrorist attacks and have had 50 story buildings subjected to
> 100 mph
> winds or zone IV earthquake loads]
> -  When was the last time your designs reached anywhere near design
> stress?
> [see above]
>  I can tell you that our designs did go through loads very near
> design limits because we tested them to that limit before they went
> into
> service.  When was the last time your firm put one of its designs
> under
> limit load testing before letting the client take possession?
>
> 		[they are all the time!...again, see above]
>
> Yes, we got Flag Day off along with other holidays that are not
> common in
> private industry.  However, when was the last time you spent YOUR
> Christmas
> on some po-dunk little island on the other side of the world because
> lives
> depended on making IMMEDIATE engineering decisions.
>
> [maybe not on a po-dunk island, but I've spent plenty of time away
> from my
> family (ask my wife and kids) dealing with issues that needed
> immediate
> decisions]
>
> If you are thinking that I am unique because I worked for the
> military, I
> would remind you that there are thousands working for other
> departments of
> the government, who have job stress, accountability and are without
> a
> guaranteed job.  Many of the jobs, you have no idea they are there.
> But
> they are and they are protecting your health and safety on a daily
> basis.
>
> [coming from a military family (WW1, WW2, Korea, Viet Nam), I have
> absolutely no beef (in fact, great respect) with anyone working in
> the
> military; they do put their lives on the line protecting us on a
> daily
> basis; frankly...what drives me crazy about the government is that
> the armed
> forces personnel are so poorly treated!!...low wages/horrible VA
> benefits
> and hospitals, etc..
> NOW THAT'S something to get angry about!}
>
> 		dlf
>
>
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