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RE: Use of Collar Ties in Light Frame Wood Construction

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I agree. The original contractor who finished the inside of the garage must
have considered that as well. Although you can strap across the beam to
maintain continuity, it is easier to use full span lumber. Only, I think it
might be difficult to find 2x6 in 25-foot lengths today:o)
BTW, We are removing the (2)2x8 splice beam the builder installed originally
and replacing it with a 3.5 x 14" Parallam which will be slid in from the
end of the garage, above the joists.

Dennis

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Conrad Guymon, P.E. [mailto:conrad(--nospam--at)karren.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:25 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: Re: Use of Collar Ties in Light Frame Wood Construction
>
>
> A very good idea to hang the ceiling.  If you cut the ceiling joists and
> flush frame the beam, you have just severed what has been serving as a
> tension tie.
>
> Good luck
>
> Conrad
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Structuralist" <dennis.wish(--nospam--at)gte.net>
> To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:25 PM
> Subject: RE: Use of Collar Ties in Light Frame Wood Construction
>
>
> > Thanks Conrad,
> > I had considered the option and was hoping to find some reference to the
> use
> > of collar ties in conventional construction first. We are in the low
> desert
> > which means that we never have to deal with snow and rain is
> generally not
> > an issue (especially since the roof is a 3:12 pitch).
> >
> > The only feasible solution here is the collar ties as I have also had to
> > correct an undersized built-up wood beam (2-2x8's spliced together
> spanning
> > 22'-6" to support a 12'-6" tributary ceiling). The original design was
> > obviously conventionally done as the double 2x8 would never have worked
> and
> > the deflected ceiling is evidence of this. I designed in a 3.5 X 14"
> > Parallam PSL 2.0E beam which the ceiling will need to be hung
> from (as it
> is
> > now). This does not leave me a lot of room for the collar ties, however,
> > they will work if placed slightly below the top third (2/3H) of the peak
> of
> > the roof).
> >
> > Thanks for your suggestion, I may resort to this, but want to check out
> any
> > known references first.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Conrad Guymon, P.E. [mailto:conrad(--nospam--at)karren.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 11:38 AM
> > > To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> > > Subject: Re: Use of Collar Ties in Light Frame Wood Construction
> > >
> > >
> > > From the modeling we have done here, collar ties just don't work,
> > > particularly the connections to the rafters.  (We usually have 30 psf
> snow
> > > load and up.)  If the collar ties do work, the rafter tails
> usually end
> up
> > > overstressed in bending.  If you can use the ceiling joists to
> > > form a bottom
> > > truss chord, this takes some of the curses out of it.  I would try a
> RISA
> > > model of a single rafter/ceiling joist/collar tie (I think
> you mentioned
> > > that you use RISA) with the appropriate members, and see if the
> > > members even
> > > pass a wood code check.  I would neglect the ridge, since it has
> > > failed.  If
> > > they work, you will then have the forces you need to design ALL the
> > > connections.  Ends up being a site built truss.
> > >
> > > HTH
> > >
> > > Conrad Guymon, P.E.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Structuralist" <dennis.wish(--nospam--at)gte.net>
> > > To: "SEAINT Listservice" <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>;
> > > <aec-residential(--nospam--at)polhemus.cc>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 1:27 PM
> > > Subject: Use of Collar Ties in Light Frame Wood Construction
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have a client with a home in escrow. There is a cracked
> ridge board
> in
> > > the
> > > > garage and it appears that the ridge has dropped a few inches.
> > > The framing
> > > > is rafter tied by the 2x6 ceiling joists to the 2x8 roof
> rafters, the
> > > ridge
> > > > board is a 2x12 DF. The crack in the ridge board is
> parallel to grain
> > > which
> > > > runs diagonally through this section of the board - an
> obvious defect
> in
> > > > material not found during original construction.
> > > >
> > > > I intended to jack up the roof and install 1x6 collar ties
> at 1/3 the
> > > > distance down from the peak of the roof. The attic is accessible to
> > > install
> > > > the collar ties and all other existing framing looks pretty good.
> > > >
> > > > The 2000 IBC lists the use of 3-10d nails to secure the 1x to
> > > the rafters.
> > > > However, this 2000 IBC is not used in California and collar tie
> > > nailing is
> > > > not indicated on the 97 UBC Nailing Table. The only reference to
> collar
> > > ties
> > > > I could find was in Appendix Chapter 23 - Prescriptive Masonry
> > > Construction
> > > > in High-Wind Areas where Section 2112.10.2 states: "Gabled and
> > > sloped roof
> > > > members not supported by the ridge shall be tied by ceiling
> joists or
> > > > equivalent lateral ties located as close to where the roof
> > > member bears on
> > > > the wall as is practically possible, at not more than 48 inches
> > > on center.
> > > > Collar ties shall not be used for these lateral ties."
> > > >
> > > > Now I am at a loss. In my opinion (as this was a common form of
> > > construction
> > > > for many years) collar ties are ideal to resolve this situation but
> this
> > > > condition requires them to act as lateral support. The existing
> ceiling
> > > ties
> > > > obviously help, but are not restraining all of the outward thrust of
> the
> > > > rafter tails since the ridge board cracked. Installing a Ridge
> > > beam seems
> > > an
> > > > inappropriate solution here as it would redistribute the
> roof load and
> > > > require the possible addition of two foundations at each end -
> requiring
> > > > that we cut through one slab and underpin the exposed slab edge.
> > > >
> > > > Any suggestions or information that would help me justify the use of
> > > collar
> > > > ties?
> > > >
> > > > If I still use collar ties (assuming the building department accepts
> the
> > > fix
> > > > as I suspect they will) I intended to install a 1x6 on each
> > > side and face
> > > > nail each end to the rafters with (3) 10d nails - spacing the
> > > collar ties
> > > > every other bay or 48" on center.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Dennis S. Wish, PE
> > > > Structural Engineering Consultant
> > > > mailto:structures(--nospam--at)engineer.com
> > > > (208) 361-5447 E-Fax
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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