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RE: Metal Building Details

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Never seen Morton Newman's book and from how people on this list server
describe his book I probably never will.  Alexander Newman's book, which I
believe JJ first commented as to having, has good *general* details from a
variety of metal building companies.  Again this might be a good start but
may not have the exact detail used on a particular project.  Also keep in
mind that some of those details might have changed since the book's
publication.  Seems like it was published 3 to 6 years ago and products or
details may have been developed, refined, or obsoleted.

Common Arch./Engr Problems from a MB side:
1) Assume 12" column always works... (not true)
2) Don't always leave room for wall bracing
3) More than 1 (different) detail for *a* particular condition/place.
4) Dimensions don't always match
5) Incomplete/incorrect building code information (from a template with
little checking after pasting into new drawing/doc)
6) Details (sometimes very good pictorially) without relevant dimensions

This is by no means a complete listing (as it is off the top of my head and
this is Friday Morning) and I am sure some of these occur through
conventional buildings also.  This list does not imply that all
architectural drawings are problems.  I have had some excellent arch.
drawings to work with in the past but have to say I have seen more
inconsistent or bad set than good :0(

JJ, don't know if you are preparing project documents or a general detail
book but don't forget to check some of the above items also in your
document.  Keep in mind that the details may change slightly from one
company to another or from time to time (through product development or
refinement).

I think Jim had mentioned previously about Butler's Architectural and
Engineering (A & E) Manual.  It should be available through Butler Builder
dealers as he mentioned.  This contains a book (binder) as well as a CD of
details.

Some metal building companies have their standard details available on the
web.  Butler does not do this but Star does, I think somebody mentioned
American Buildings, and possibly others do as well.  A lot of companies also
publish specs that can be included in bid documents.  Just as you might
think those are typically worded to aide a particular company to get the
bid, usually by specifying something that most other companies don't do
(special product or use, not a bad particular but a different one).

Hope this helps,
Greg Effland, P.E.
KC MO

-----Original Message-----
From: Craig J Slama [mailto:cslama(--nospam--at)hvc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 8:54 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: Metal Building Details


I dont have Alexander Newman's books, but I have a
big compilation of details by Morton Newman and I have to agree with Mr. 
Sherman
that this book was very disappointing, and frankly quite useless unless 
you have NEVER
drawn a single detail.
Maybe even then.

Sherman, William wrote:

> I agree with Francisco - Alexander Newman's book contains good practical
> discussions and some explanatory details of various metal building
> components and would be a useful resource. I also have Morton Newman's
> details for steel, concrete, and masonry, but frankly I am disappointed in
> these books. They concentrate too much on a limited number of types of
> details and do not cover enough different applications for my general use.

> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Francisco Diego Arcos [mailto:fdarammx(--nospam--at)prodigy.net.mx]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 3:07 PM
>> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
>> Subject: RE: Metal Building Details
>> 
>> 
>> I think the mentioned book by Morton Newman has details for 
>> multiple story
>> buildings and nothing for gable roof buildings used as commercial or
>> industrial buildings (PEMBs). I don't think that book will 
>> get you in the
>> ballpark at all, so save your money.
>> 
>> There's another McGraw Hill publication by Alexander Newman 
>> called Metal
>> Building Systems. That might help a little bit more although is not a
>> detailing book.
>> 
>> Good luck in your search,
>> 
>> Francisco Diego
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Effland, Greg [mailto:geeffland(--nospam--at)butlermfg.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 13:38
>> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
>> Subject: RE: Metal Building Details
>> 
>> 
>> It has been a while since I last looked at the Newman book 
>> you had referred
>> to re: metal buildings.  Seems like it had a lot of general 
>> details from
>> various PEMB manufacturers.  That is probably your best bet 
>> if you want
>> general details to see how a situation might be handled.
>> 
>> Again I would have to say contact with the individual MB 
>> company on a per
>> job basis might be your best alternative if you need to know the exact
>> detail.  Many manufactures may have proprietary details or 
>> parts for many of
>> the areas you mentioned below and they tend to reuse them for 
>> various jobs.
>> There are not many standard *industry* details for most of them.
>> 
>> The variances are just too wide to give a detail for XX 
>> situation unless you
>> talk to the PEMB company directly.  If you are just looking 
>> to get in the
>> ballpark for some architectural drawings then the Details 
>> book you mentioned
>> may get you into the ballpark.
>> 
>> Hope this helps,
>> Greg Effland, P.E.
>> KC MO
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Juan José Treff De la Mora [mailto:jjtreff(--nospam--at)hotmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 1:57 PM
>> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
>> Cc: v.t.eskelsen(--nospam--at)att.net
>> Subject: Re: Metal Building Details
>> 
>> 
>> I totally agree with you Valerie but Mr. Effland from Butler 
>> thinks they
>> might. Does anyone know the book Structural Details for Steel 
>> Construction
>> by Morton Newman (1996 McGraw Hill)?
>> 
>> That is exactly what I'm looking for but for tapered member 
>> rigid frames,
>> steel trusses, purlins, girts, struts, connections, wind 
>> rods, tie rods,
>> base plates, stiffeners, bracings, roof and wall panels, gutters,
>> downspouts, etc. All these for the so called "pre-engineered 
>> buildings".
>> 
>> I don't mean to know the secrets of a manufacturer, just the 
>> very general
>> situations like those in the book I mentioned.
>> 
>> Any suggestions?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> JJ
>> 
> 
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