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Re: List Process Problem(s)

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You wrote: "When I changed service a couple of weeks or so ago, I tried
to "unsubscribe" from my original address.  Yes, I did go through the =
instructions at the end of the mails, and I went to the website, and I
had direct contact with Shafat!  No luck!  I canceled my original
service, so I lost all those emails anyway.  Who knows? For all I know,
the list may still be trying to send to that address."

I am not an expert - certainly not as knowledgeable about this as Shafat
is (although I am learning), but I think that the key is in your first
sentence. Users are not made aware of this and I think it might solve a
great many problems.

When you subscribe you send in a confirmation that checks not only your
e-mail address but the server address. If you change services, the
server address changes and this makes it impossible to unsubscribe from
a list from any other server address.

The reason (and Shafat, please correct me if I am wrong) is to avoid
others from subscribing people without their permission and
unsubscribing them for the same reason.

The Structuralist.Net now uses software called Mailman(tm) which is
installed on my web hosting service. One is no better than the other,
but they all pretty much work the same way. SEAINT created a web page to
help you automate the process. The newer versions of software like
Mailman provide the user with a personal address to an administration
web page were the subscriber can administer his or her own service. It
is not the most friendly only from the point of view that if you
subscribe to numerous lists (The Structuralist.Net lists are Topic
Exclusive to limit the traffic), you should have one page to access all
of your lists and change their settings (digest on/off, HTML on/off,
temporary stop for vacation, sub and unsubscribe etc.). You can access
each of your other pages on The Structuralist.Net but it takes some
playing with to figure out how to get there from the main page. 

The point is that it does take some education on the users part, but
shouldn't we be trying to keep up with technology instead of frustrating
ourselves by it? There are instructions, the users still voluntarily
subscribe - and it is confirmed that they are the one subscribing to the
service (even the SEAINT list as I just unsubscribed and re-subscribed
in digest mode).

Thor, you did what was suggested - you wrote to Shafat when you had
problems. Ultimately, you solved the problem and came back on the list.
I'm sure there will always be problems that are unique or difficult to
resolve, but the majority of these requests come from others who seem to
have no idea why or how they got on the list. Some of them are simply
insulting and these are the ones that I can not tolerate.

What is the use of writing to the list members to complain - we can
offer some suggestions, but the majority of those who write are already
at the ballistic level and not willing to spend the time or energy to do
it themselves.

Dennis S. Wish, PE
California Professional Engineer
The Structuralist.Net Information Infrastructure

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