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RE: shotcrete walls

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Peter:

To be honest, I am not complete sure.  It will largely depend on how the
referenced document is written.  For the most part, I would say that you
should specifically write out what you want in the specifications rather
than reference something that is not mandatory.

I can for forsee this problem:

You say "The contractor shall adhere to the recommendations of _____
(insert here the non-mandatory document)" but the non-mandatory document
actually has several different recommendations to solve a particular
problem.  Which one "shall the contractor adhere to"?  Keep in mind that
you could have several solutions to a problem that all produce a very
satifactory result, but are drastically different in how they work and the
results, while satifactory for all choices, could still be slightly
different enough that one would be what you as the EOR really wanted.

The point is that if there is something that you, as the EOR, want done in
a certain way, then YOU have to spell it out specifically in mandatory
language, otherwise the contractor can always come back as say "well, you
did not say that it really HAD to be done that way, you just recommended
it."  The point is that you need to be specific and clear, otherwise at
best you just confuse the contractor with contradictory "requirements" or
at worst present an option for a contractor that is looking to cut corners
a real (and contractually acceptable) way to do so.

HTH,

Scott
Ypsilanti, MI


On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Peter Griem wrote:

> Related question:
>
> If you state in your documents "Contractor shall adhere to the
> recommendations of ___(insert here - geotechnical report, ACI 306R,
> whatever)__"  would you be covered?  Or should you really repeat each
> recommendation in mandatory language?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter
> Glastonbury, CT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 1:38 PM
> To: 'seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org'
> Subject: RE: shotcrete walls
>
>
> Eric,
>
> Just a slight word of caution...be very careful when referencing an ACI
> document with a "R" in the number.  All ACI documents with "R"s in the
> number are NOT mandatory documents, when means they are not written in a
> manner to that allows them just to be referenced in contract
> specifications.  The "R" means that they are written as recommendations
> not requirements.  Thus, if you just reference the "R" document, the
> contractor in the strictest sense could ignore the "recommendation".
>
> Thus, if there is something in one of the 506R documents that you want to
> use, make sure actually write it into the specification as a requirement.
> For example, if one of the 506R documents recommends having test panels
> and you agree with that recommendation, then write into your
> specifications that there MUST be test panels (and include all the
> specific requirements that you want to require).
>
> I am sure that you might already be aware of this, but it is good for
> others to hear it since it was something that I frequently had to explain
> to people who submitted technical inquires to ACI when I was a staff
> engineer there.
>
> Regardless, the committee 506 documents are good references to review when
> it comes to shotcrete issues.
>
> HTH,
>
> Scott
> Ypsilanti, MI
>
>
> On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Fieberling, Eric wrote:
>
> > Jeff,
> > You might want to read & reference ACI 506R, 506.2 & 506.3R. We have quite
> a
> > bit of shotcrete on tanks and retaining walls. We typically require one
> test
> > panel for each 50 yds of shotcrete. However, after review of initial panel
> > tests and if the same crew and mix are being used, subsequent panel
> testing
> > may be waived. The tests panels should represent the most congested
> > conditions in the field.  We also require nozzlemen certification per ACI
> > 506.3R or min 3000hrs of experience.
> >
> > Eric Fieberling SE
> > East Bay Municipal Utility District
> > Oakland CA
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeff Smith [mailto:smthengr(--nospam--at)sirius.com]
> > Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 7:11 AM
> > To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> > Subject: shotcrete walls
> >
> >
> > I have a project where the contractor "informed" me that they were going
> to
> > shotcrete a retaining wall in lieu of cast in place (after the footing was
> > poured). I am not near my code, but as I understand it, anything with bars
> > greater than #5 requires that test panels are prepared. Also there are
> > specific requirements for spacing and non-contact lap spices.
> >
> > I am only aware of a few cases where shotcrete test panels have been
> > prepared. I know of one project where it took the contractor 8 attempts to
> > get it right. This project had large congested bars.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
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