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RE: STAAD or RISA?

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Hi Gerard,

Exactly my points,

STAAD is not new, only the GUI (which as I think,
since I've been using since ver 6) which is new,
should not constitute more than 10% of the learning
curve for STAAD-Pro for Bill Allen, or anybody (who is
using since ver 8) (It is not only possible, but the
text interface actually is the easiest way to model,
and the surest way to check what you'r getting as what
you call results, (as Chris wants to put it)). About
the tech support he has already stated that "he has
not even the felt the need for it".

So I do not understand how can learning to use,
utilize intuitively & productively, a new software
(with a 100% learning curve (have not to deal only
with GUI, but everything else you mentioned...nodes,
release, supports, loads and above all the results,
and its format in the way you have been interpreting
till now), however user friendly, can be justified.

It can be justified, however as I said earlier 

IF RISA=100 & STAAD=5

I am sorry to say that I do not KNOW Bill Allen, or
RISA, but I KNOW what I am talking about.

Regards

Pankaj

PS: I think it is more fun arguing on the top
Guitarists that this. VIVA SANTANA ! (I can hear
Bill.P. going after me)



--- "Gerard Madden, PE" <gmadden(--nospam--at)attbi.com> wrote:
> Hi Pankaj,
> 
> Here is why I phrased my response the way I did with
> the magical 2 hours
> up and running time everyone (with some exceptions)
> is shitting their
> pants over...
> 
> The original post was from Bill Allen. Bill has been
> on this list longer
> than me (I've been on it four years now) and he
> regularly posts. I
> respect his opinion and he's seems to know his
> stuff. That said, along
> with Bill's statement that he has been using STAAD
> for many years, makes
> me believe that Bill already understands that any
> "FEA" software or
> Matrix Analysis software or whatever you want to
> call it, needs to be
> used when A) You trust the results & B) You have the
> capability to
> verify the results (i.e. looking at deflected
> shapes, reactions, and
> moment diagrams etc...) Additionally, because Bill
> has been using STAAD,
> he also understands what goes into building a model,
> members, node
> releases, loads etc - these are true of all programs
> of this nature.
> 
> Bill seemed to be concerned about an unfamiliar GUI
> with the new staad.
> Therefore he would have to learn it. It will take
> some time for him to
> get up and running learning the new staad or he
> could do it as a text
> input (some people have mentioned this is still
> possible).
> 
> With RISA there would also be a learning curve - My
> belief is that this
> learning curve will be 2 hours - to about a day for
> some one of Bill's
> capabilities and experience with modeling to be
> PRODUCTIVE in RISA. My
> definition of Productive is to build the model, load
> it, analyze it, and
> interpret the results. The trust he needs to build
> with the program will
> come over time - Just as it will with the new
> version of STAAD.
> 
> Back when I used STAAD, I had several instances
> where I had to call
> technical support and got the proverbial - your
> modeling is flawed
> response. When I call Risa, the staff would 1st ask
> me to send the model
> to them. On one occasion they fixed a bug because of
> what I sent them.
> The customer support was top notch and the program,
> although not as
> "powerful" as STAAD (i.e. the space shuttle wasn't
> taking off when I
> loaded risa), it was capable of doing everything I
> needed beyond moving
> up to Etabs or SAP for high rise buildings that had
> shearwalls. STAAD
> has been bashed for years on this list and is
> generally regarded as a
> sub-par product for the price by American engineers
> (yes I know I'm
> generalizing). For a little less I can get RISA, a
> little more I can get
> Etabs or Sap, and I don't have to buy all the little
> add ons.
> 
> In summary, go with RISA and you will be productive
> quickly as long as
> you have an understanding of how structures BEHAVE.
> If you are just a
> technician entering data and printing results - my
> statements do not
> apply.
> 
> As Robert Plant once sang "I'm ramblin'
> YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH Sing my
> song ..."
> 
> Respectfully,
> -Gerard
> Santa Clara, CA
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Structures Online [mailto:soldetail(--nospam--at)yahoo.com]
> 
> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 12:30 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: RE: STAAD or RISA?
> 
> Hello Gerard,
> 
> But what was the original post, and what was the
> poster's requirement. I do not agree that RISA
> (although I admit I have never used it), however
> user
> friendly, and easy to use, can be used more
> productively by someone who has been using STAAD
> since
> ver 8.
> That would simply imply that  
> 
> RISA gets 100/100
> &
> STAAD gets maybe 5/100.
> 
> Sorry, I do'nt agree !
> 
> Regards
> 
> Pankaj
> 
> 
> 
> --- "Gerard Madden, PE" <gmadden(--nospam--at)attbi.com> wrote:
> > I learned it in two hours - never said I knew it
> > inside and out in two
> > hours, but I could build a model, load it, and
> > analyze it, and quickly
> > interpret the result. Of course I got faster and
> > faster the more I used
> > it - the point is RISA is simple to learn and use,
> > but still powerful.
> > You can definitely be up and going in less than a
> > day if you do the RISA
> > tutorial - maybe not your type of work since it is
> > too sophisticated for
> > someone like me.
> > 
> > -gerard
> > Santa Clara, CA
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: glrafter(--nospam--at)netscape.net
> > [mailto:glrafter(--nospam--at)netscape.net] 
> > Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 11:56 AM
> > To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> > Subject: RE:STAAD or RISA?
> > 
> > These discussions are pointless. Each engineer
> > should decide what is
> > best for them by going through the examples,
> > tutorials, etc. Just
> > because I like a Nissan Xterra doesn't mean
> everyone
> > should. I like it
> > because of its price, its trunk space, etc. There
> > are things that I put
> > more value on than other features. I use STAAD.Pro
> > for cold-formed steel
> > design and heavy-duty dynamic analysis. Not for
> its
> > concrete, or its
> > solid elements or because someone told me to. I am
> > comfortable with it.
> > Also, anybody who says they can learn a structural
> > software package in
> > 2hours and know everything inside and out is
> either
> > working for the
> > marketing dept of the software company or is
> > building 5 member portal
> > frames for a living. 
> > 
> >
>
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