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Re: cast-in-place side walks/walk way/foot walk------ treatment of joints

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Stan,

I figured that there might be some logical/technical reason why sealing
the joints might be within reason.  Thanks for offering one.

Regards,

Scott
Ypsilanti, MI


On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 sscholl2(--nospam--at)juno.com wrote:

> One reason to seal the joints in an area where sand blows (such as at our
> beach areas) is that at night when the concrete contracts the sand gets
> in the joints. Then the next day when expansion occurs you can have
> problems because there is no where for expansion to occur. In an extreme
> case you can get joint heave with an accompanying explosion.
>
>  Stan Scholl, P.E.
> Laguna Beach, CA
>
> On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Scott Maxwell
> <smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu> writes:
> > Syed,
> >
> > Assuming that there is not some weird reason that you (or I) are not
> > aware
> > of in your particular project, there is no engineering reason for
> > sealing
> > the joints that I can think of except maybe to provide a smooth
> > surface at
> > the joint location for some kind of wheeled traffic or such.
> >
> > As someone else pointed out, there may be a contractual need to seal
> > the
> > joints.  If you are the contractor on the project and the project
> > documents require that the joints be sealed and that is what you bid
> > upon
> > and agreed to do in your contract, then you may need to seal the
> > joints.
> >
> > HTH,
> >
> > Scott
> > Ypsilanti, MI
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, syed faiz ahmad wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Scott,
> > >
> > > Thanx, it sort of reinforces my view point. So, we agree there is
> > no need
> > > to seal intermediate control (tooled/saw cut) joints, no?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Syed Faiz Ahmad
> > >
> > > >From: Scott Maxwell
> > > >Reply-To:
> > > >To:
> > > >Subject: Re: cast-in-place side walks/walk way/foot walk------
> > treatment
> > > of joints
> > > >Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:33:16 -0400 (EDT)
> > > >
> > > >All the sidewalks in my neck of the woods have NO sealant in the
> > joints.
> > > >The joints are either just a tooled joint left "bare" or a
> > construction
> > > >joint with a "bond breaker"/pourstop in the joint.
> > > >
> > > >Joint spacing is at about a 2:1 to 1:1 ratio (i.e. sidewalk width
> > is
> > > >typically about 3 feet wide and joints are typically about 3 to 5
> > feet
> > > >apart).
> > > >
> > > >HTH,
> > > >
> > > >Scott
> > > >Ypsilanti, MI
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, syed faiz ahmad wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello All,
> > > > >
> > > > > The issue is the joint treatment for the above mentioned items
> > of
> > > work.
> > > > > We have a considerable lenghts of side walks for the project.
> > As a
> > > > > Contarctor we would prefer to have:
> > > > > - minimum possible amount of joints
> > > > > - to economise, to do away with any sealing of joints.
> > > > >
> > > > > For Rigid Concrete Pavement, or for that matter a
> > slab-on-grade,
> > > sealing
> > > > > of grooves of joints is understandable. That is, it is
> > required to
> > > > > prevent water or dirt moving under the pavement/slab which
> > might
> > > trigger
> > > > > pumping & thereby damage the subbase & eventually the
> > pavement/slab
> > > > > itself.
> > > > >
> > > > > But for a lightly loaded pedestrian side walk, is there really
> > a need
> > > > > to seal the joints? Given the fact that the region is arid,
> > with very
> > > > > scanty rains, and the chances of water getting under is slim.
> > But
> > > even if
> > > > > it gets thru, so what, its only a lightly loaded side walk.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Consultant to the project is insisting for sealing the
> > joints,
> > > which
> > > > > I feel it doesn't warrant a technical need for the same.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any thought based on individual experience? Thanx in advance,
> > > > >
> > > > > Syed Faiz Ahmad; MEngg, Masce
> > > > > Senior Structural Engineer
> > > > > Saudi Oger Ltd
> > > > > Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
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