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Re: ADA (was Re: Building Codes on-line)

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It is many times not a case of parking "a little farther" or waiting "a
little longer" due to excessive and/or unreasonable ADA requirements.
Many times it is a matter of no parking being available except for the 6
or so almost never used ADA reserved spaces, and having to walk a block
or more or pay a few $ for paid spaces. It is my experience that the
number of required  ADA spaces could be cut in half and no one would
suffer and many would benefit. And there are many other regulations that
could be similarly modified to everyone's benefit.
By the way, I limp when I walk, so I know a little something about being
limited.

Stan Scholl, P.E.
Laguna Beach, CA

On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Scott Maxwell
<smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu> writes:
> And I am sure that those who are stuck in a wheelchair for the rest 
> of
> their life would gladly suffer from longer lines if it somehow were
> possible for a miracle to occur that they would no longer be stuck 
> in that
> wheelchair.
> 
> Personally, while I would be willing to admit that the ADA may not 
> be
> perfect and may not cleanly or fully accomplish everything that it 
> is
> meant to accomplish, I find the whole direction of this thread 
> slightly
> offensive.  I find it at least a little distrubing that some seem to 
> be
> unwilling to offer a little compassion to those who find themselves 
> in a
> position that is already difficult and that they likely did not 
> choose to
> place themselves.
> 
> Having a medical condition myself that does place me within the 
> realm of
> the ADA but is not serious enough for me to be forced make use of my
> rights under the ADA (fortunately, my medical condition is such that 
> I
> don't necessarily need to use the ADA which means that I can choose 
> to or
> not), I can certainly find more than enough compasion that things 
> like
> having to park a little farther from the door due to "excessive" 
> numbers
> of handicapped parking spaces and having to wait a little longer to 
> use
> the restroom due to fewer fixtures are things that I can definitely 
> live
> with.  I also don't mind that I might have to pay more for things or 
> in
> taxes due to this act of the government because I feel fortunate 
> that I am
> not confined to a wheelchair or something similar.
> 
> As to the ADA being "NOT appropriate" or useless, I personally thing 
> this
> is a load of crap.  While it MAY cost consumers more and it MAY 
> "...end up
> bankrolling the bloated trial lawyers lobby to unbelievalbe
> proportions...", I strongly suspect that those who are unfortunate 
> enough
> to be forced to rely on the ADA to try to make their life a little 
> more
> "normal" find that it does a lot more than drive up consumer costs 
> and put
> money in lawyer's pockets.  I would suggest that those who consider 
> the
> ADA a waste of money consider themselves lucky that they have not 
> had to
> have first hand experience of a life that makes something like the 
> ADA
> necessary.  One the other hand, maybe if some such people could 
> truly walk
> a mile in someone's shoes who is forced into the realm of the ADA, 
> they
> could learn a new perspective in life and realize that they used to 
> be an
> idiot when it came to this subject.
> 
> I would apologize if my comments offend anyone, but then to a 
> certain
> degree that was their intent.  To me, this is why discussions on 
> this list
> are supposed to stick to the engineering issue...political, 
> religious, and
> other potentially volatile subjects tend to get messy and usually 
> manage
> to become offensive or objectionable to someone.
> 
> Political mode off.
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Scott
> Ypsilanti, MI
> 
> 
> On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 sscholl2(--nospam--at)juno.com wrote:
> 
> > One result of the ADA is that when existing buildings are 
> retrofitted
> > there are several fewer toilets and other fixtures and thus longer 
> lines
> > especially for women. I have done several these and the only way 
> to gain
> > room for the 60" circle is to remove one or more toilets and 
> lavatories.
> > Also the number of parking spaces is very excessive.
> >
> > Stan Scholl, P.E.
> > Laguna Beach, CA
> >
> > On Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:40:34 -0700 "Paul Feather"
> > <pfeather(--nospam--at)SE-Solutions.net> writes:
> > > Drew Morris wrote:
> > >
> > > > My father spent the last 11 years of his life in a wheelchair.
> > > While
> > > > ADA can go to extremes, I don't think it is too much to ask 
> for us
> > > > (taxpayers), society, and building owners to make things a 
> little
> > > > easier.  Like most questions, defining "a little easier" can
> > > sometimes
> > > > get you into those arguments similar as to the definitions of
> > > "the" and
> > > > what constitutes sex.  I leave these to the philosophers, I 
> get
> > > enough
> > > > metaphysical bafflement from the IBC or as Tolkien put it (if 
> he
> > > was a
> > > > structural engineer), " One code to rule them all and in the
> > > darkness
> > > > stump them".
> > >
> > > I agree that the ADA requirements are not only necessary, but 
> the
> > > minimum
> > > that we as a society are morally obligated to provide.  The 
> largest
> > > problem
> > > with the ADA requirements is the complete ambiguity of the text. 
>  It
> > > is
> > > virtually impossible to know if you are actually complying with 
> the
> > > regulations.  As Bill indicates, the ADA regulations as written 
> are
> > > as if
> > > the intention was to provide job security for the burgeoning 
> ranks
> > > of the
> > > legal profession.  While we Engineers debate and clamor 
> regarding
> > > the
> > > ambiguities and potential legal pitfalls of the 1997 UBC, we 
> should
> > > pause in
> > > our struggle and give thanks in this instance that we are not
> > > Architects.
> > >
> > >
> > > Paul Feather PE, SE
> > > pfeather(--nospam--at)SE-Solutions.net
> > > www.SE-Solutions.net
> > >
> > >
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