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RE: ADA (was Re: Building Codes on-line)

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Eric,
Because people like Bill can't stand the idea that government takes
control over issues that should remain in the private sector. The thing
that Bill is blind to is that the private sector only has one thing on
their mind - the protection of the profits that they need to maintain in
order to satisfy shareholders and they are willing to do this at the
expense of the private sector employees.

It's easy for Bill to throw out statements like Johnson's Great Society
plan cost the American Public Five Trillion dollars. He can't support
this statement as the deficit at the time Johnson was in office rose
less than 300-Billion dollars while the deficit under Republicans
(Reagan alone) rose over one-trillion dollars. Call it inflation or
whatever you want, but the deficit rise during the Johnson
administration was caused by the increase in Military spending that
added 300-thousand troopss to the existing 181,000 at the time in order
to deal with theescalationn of the war in Vietnam because of the Gulf of
Tonkin uprising. Actually, it was for fear of the Domino effect that we
might lose South Vietnam in the battle. The cost of the war escalated
the deficit as any war or military conflict will. Any increase in the
deficit for the programs that Johnson started to protect Equality of the
people who are citizens of this country are well worth the price. These
programs which were far from ineffective included:
The Job Corp - which provided work for disadvantage youth Volunteers.
Consider it as the same cost that you our I would spend to hire a
gardener or any service that provides some service needed in this
country and could offer training in return.
VISTA - which was the American Peace Corp
Head Start Program (this is controversial but served its purpose at the
time to help disadvantage that were ignored or treated as slave labor by
the private sector).
Elementary and Secondary Education Act - which offered instruction to
disadvantaged students
Medicare - an insurance program for the elderly who could not afford it
or were rejected by private insurance companies. By the way - this was
not welfare as Bill suggests. Medicare premiums are paid for by the
retired elderly from their Social Security Benefits.
Medicaid (which we call MediCal in California) is a welfare related
medical care program. Of course we could ask the homeless or poor to
start their own medical savings plan at a nickel a week. The fact is
that anyone at any time in history who worked for minimum wage was
unable to make a living and support the insurance needs of their family.
If they had a catastrophic ailment, the government would end up paying
for it any ways.
Let's see what he did for the minorities such as the Blacks. He
instituted the Voting Legislation Rights package to give the vote to all
people regardless of race, color or creed - something Jeb Bush tried to
squelch in Florida to give his brother a boost into office.

I served in the Army Reserves although I was against the escalation of
the war in Vietnam. I objected not to the freeing South Vietnam from the
hold of the communists, but from the privatization of American (global)
industry in a country that we intended to protect from communist
aggression. Our goal, however, was tainted - we wanted South Vietnam
because we could move American companies like Coca Cola over there to
take advantage of lower labor costs and higher profits from the sale of
products. Private industry wanted their rights to Free-Enterprise and
they wanted the Federal Government to do it for them.

I did not like Johnson because of his demand to escalate the war, but he
will always be known as the one president who did more for the
disadvantaged, minorities and civil rights of Americans than any other
president on record.

So please, if you want to throw out statements like Five Trillion
Dollars in cost to this country (which can only be Deficits) get your
facts straight. Our increased deficits comes from the hording of private
and global companies to satisfy shareholders at the expense of those who
are left not being able to afford an old age or retirement. This is not
charity - Social Security is a savings plan forced by the government to
protect those who suffered during the depression era and to insure that
it does not happen again. Possible one of the problems is that those to
retrieve their benefits don't need them but take them because they paid
in. While this is true, it would be more beneficial to the people in
this country if Americans who did not require use of their social
security benefits to give them to the less advantaged and take a tax
credit in its place to offset the capital gains they make on their
investments.

We live in a country of very selfish people and Bill, I'm surprised at
your low opinion of those who do the types of work you would never dirty
your hands on and get paid poorly for it.

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Green [mailto:EGreen(--nospam--at)walterpmoore.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 8:53 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: ADA (was Re: Building Codes on-line)


Just out of curiosity (I have no stake in this question):

Why do people get so upset when the federal government assumes some
power but do not seem to care if the state assumes it?

I am ignoring the constitutional issues, unless you claim to support the
position that it would all be ok with you if it was in the constitution,
you only object b/c it is not (an I agree this is a valid position).

Eric Green
- Seeking the truth

-----Original Message-----
From: M. David Finley, P.E. [mailto:pec(--nospam--at)isgroup.net] 
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 2:48 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: ADA (was Re: Building Codes on-line)

Actually, the idea is not that the government should not be involved in
most of the things you brought up, it is the recognizition that it is
not the role of the FEDERAL government according to the U.S.
Constitution.

The powers granted to the federal government are very limited.  The rest
are reserved for the STATES.

I have no objection to (and in fact support) state building codes.

M. David Finley, P.E.
3810 South First Street - Suite 7
Lake City, FL  32025
386-752-6400

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Wright" <chrisw(--nospam--at)skypoint.com>
To: "SEAOC Newsletter" <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 1:04 PM
Subject: RE: ADA (was Re: Building Codes on-line)


> >And, in the same line of thinking, I suppose that you advocate doing
away
> >with building codes also?
> I think you've hit it, Roger. Building codes and engineering laws
stifle
> creativity. With the free market at work instead of the socialistic 
> boiler code, power plants and refineries would be as interesting to
watch
> as, say, the Sultana sinking. While we're at it let make SEC
compliance
> voluntary so all those wonderful money machines like World Com and
Enron
> can keep stimulating the economy.
>
> Um... wait...bad example.
>
> Well, how about campaign finance laws--we can make compliance
voluntary
> so our politicians have ready-made financing from outfits like ADM and

> Tyco who certainly know better than the electorate what they actually 
> need from a law.
>
> Uh...maybe that's not so good either...
>
> OK, booze--that's a good area for voluntary compliance. Surely people
who
> have been drinking all their lives know more about their ability to
drive
> after a couple of beers (that's all they usually have, anyway)than
some
> damn nosy parker cop. And while we're at it make all traffic laws 
> voluntary--government has no business standing in the way of type A 
> nutcakes who like to drive faster than everyone else.
>
> OK..that one needs work, too...
>
> Anyway, here's the general principle--anything that might be
inconvenient
> gets made voluntary so any schlockmeister who craves a fast buck won't

> have to worry about being held accountable when his rotten judgement 
> kills someone.
>
> (Damn--and I was going to stay out of this thread as a demonstration
of
> the spiritual value of ignoring crazy talk. Maybe next time.)
>
> Christopher Wright P.E.    |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
> chrisw(--nospam--at)skypoint.com        | this distance"   (last words of Gen.
> ___________________________| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania 1864) 
> http://www.skypoint.com/~chrisw
>
>
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