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RE: ACI or CRSI question-answer center

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To clarify what Jay wrote below...

What he states is absolutely correct if you want an "official"
interpretation of something in an ACI document.

On the other hands, if you want the opinion of an INDIVIDUAL who was
involved with the creation of that document, then members of committee's
can give their own opinion.  The key is that it is the opinion of that one
individual, NOT an official opinion in any way.  It may be that opinion is
correct and co-insides with what the official interpretation would be if
rendered.  The end result is that getting the opinion from an individual
committee member or an ACI staff member (or staff member from CRSI, PCA,
PCI, etc) may give you a warm fuzzy feeling, but it is more or less worth
what you paid for it (i.e. nothing) if you want to use it in any form of a
legal or substantive arguement.

So, to use Roger's example, the answer he got was only useful to give him
a warm fuzzy feeling.  Even though it came from a member of the 318
committee, it was not in anyway an official answer or a respresentation of
what was actually meant other than that individual's opinion.

FYI, ACI staff member when they do respond to technical inquiries will
sometimes contact committee members to see if one is willing to get an
opinion.  Not only does this potentially get a more authoritative (notice
the adj.) for the person asking the question, it can also point out to the
committee where there are some items of confusion that may need
clarification in the next iteration of the document.

HTH,

Scott
Ypsilanti, MI


On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Jay Shilstone wrote:

> I just want to second Scott Maxwell's response below. I am on a number of
> ACI committees and am well aware that, according to ACI rules, ONLY the
> appropriate technical committee AS A WHOLE, can give an interpretation of
> their document. This can take quite a while. This is one of the rules set
> up by ANSI with regard to codes and standards-creating groups. Of course, a
> Code or Standard committee has a stricter interpretation than a
> "Recommended Practice" committee.
>
> Jay Shilstone
>
> At 07:31 AM 11/4/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >An incident with CRSI impressed me a long time ago.  I called and talked to
> >Paul Rice, head of CRSI.  He has died since then.  His loss was a big one
> >for the industry.  He may have even answered the phone, they aren't
> >overstaffed either.  I asked him a question about one of the code
> >provisions regarding effective length of columns.  I told him how I was
> >interpreting the code and what I thought was wrong with it.  He thought
> >about it and he agreed with me.  He couldn't understand why my
> >interpretation was wrong.  He said he would check on it and get back to me.
> >  He talked to Al Gouwens and Edward Hoffman or Chester Seiss who were on
> >the ACI 318 committee.  My notes are unclear as to whether he talked to
> >Hoffman or Seiss but I recorded that Gouwens agreed with what I thought was
> >correct even though the code said otherwise.  Gouwens suggested and Rice
> >concurred that even though the code seemed to be unreasonably conservative
> >with regard to this question, I should follow through with what the code
> >said.  I didn't get the answer I wanted, but I was very impressed with the
> >way CRSI responded to me.  I have had other good experiences with CRSI; but
> >none as memorable as that one.
> >
> >Roger C. Davis
> >Architect
> >SDS Architects, Inc.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Scott Maxwell [SMTP:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu]
> >Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 6:07 PM
> >To: 'seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org'
> >Subject: RE: ACI or CRSI question-answer center
> >My emphasis (bold italics) added below. Roger
> >An interesting response...while you are very likely correct on the facts
> >(i.e. timeliness in response, bureaucracy, etc) and as a result from your
> >prospective the critism may be valid, I am fortunate enough to have a
> >slightly different perspective.
> >
> >Have you considered that first of all ACI staff engineers first job
> >responsibility is NOT answering technical inquiries from people (members
> >and non-members alike)?  ...
> >
> >The point is that an ACI staff engineer's primary responsibility is to
> >help and support the 100 or so ACI technical committees, including
> >attending meetings, sometimes acting as secretaries, reviewing documents
> >from committees, making sure that ACI procedures are being followed by
> >the committees, attend the conferences, and other general things to aid
> >the committees. ....
> >HTH,
> >
> >Scott
> >Ypsilanti, MI
> >
> >
> >On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Roger Davis wrote:
> >
> > > CRSI is much more helpful than ACI or at least they use to be. I haven't
> > > called them for quite a while.  The last number I have is 847/517-1200.
> > >  When I have called them I have spoken to an engineer immediately and  I
> > > have gotten an answer immediately - and at no cost.  I am a member of ACI
> > > and have asked them for help at times also.  There is more bureaucracy to
> > > get through at ACI - sometimes you can get an answer relatively quickly,
> > > sometimes you can't.  CRSI definitely has a more customer friendly
> > > attitude.
> > >
> > > Roger C. Davis
> > > Architect
> > > SDS Architects, Inc.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ken Peoples [SMTP:kspeoples(--nospam--at)lvta.net]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:59 AM
> > > To: Seaint
> > > Subject: ACI or CRSI question-answer center
> > >
> > >  << File: ATT00016.htm >> I know that AISC has the steel solutions center
> > > and am very thankful for this.  Do any of you know if ACI or CRSI has
> > > anything similar?
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > > Kenneth S. Peoples, P. E.
> > > Lehigh Valley Technical Associates
> > > 1584 Weaversville Road
> > > Northampton, PA 18067-9039
> > > Phone: (610) 262-6345
> > > Fax: (610) 262-8188
> > > e-mail: kpeoples(--nospam--at)lvta.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
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