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RE: TS MOMENT FRAME

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You have to radius the ends of the backing bars so they fit into the corners of the curved portion.  Also need  to use thicker backing bars to get the radius, but you can make it work pretty well on thinner guage HSS.  If the HSS is fairly thick (say 1/2"), then it would get a little trickier.  I don't see why you couldn't use this method with a single bevel full pen TS section to a flat plate, if the TS was bevelled and the backing bars were attached to the TS.  However, if the plate was fairly large there may be an issue of rod angle and depositing the filler into the full pen at the right angle (I'm not positive of the procedure/correct rod angle -- I'd check with your shop and find out what the limitation is).

Scott Maze

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Grill [mailto:j.grill(--nospam--at)attbi.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:39 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: TS MOMENT FRAME


How do you get the full pen around the corner radius of the tube section?
You wouldn't have the backing bar there, would you?
I've also had a fellow engineer tell me that a fabricator told him that you
couldn't do a full pen weld of a TS section to a flat plate.  Is that true?
I told him I hadn't heard of that before.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Maze, Scott" <SxM9(--nospam--at)pge.com>
To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: TS MOMENT FRAME


We've full penned HSS sections using backing plates tack welded to the
inside of the tube, using a single bevel full pen.  In our case the tube was
big enough (6" x 6") to reach the rod in through the top for the tack weld
(I've also seeen the ironworkers put a bend in a stick of rod to make a
"blind" tack -- doesn't work too well with a feed gun).  We used four pieces
of fairly thick flat bar for backing, and radiused the ends to fit the
inside radius of the HSS.

I don't think there's any way to do it with a back gouge.  I'm sure somebody
out there knows of a way using robotic tooling, etc., but I don't think the
economics work out on that!

Hope that helps,

Scott Maze
Diablo Canyon Power Plant

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexander Sasha Itsekson [mailto:sasha(--nospam--at)engstruc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 9:40 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: TS MOMENT FRAME


Antonio,

How were you able to get a FP weld on the tube steel?  Is there a way to
back gouge it or use a backer plate with fillet?

Alexander (Sasha) Itsekson, SE
Enginious Structures
Oakland, CA
tel. 510.601.1646
fax  510.420.8110
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From: ASLCSE(--nospam--at)aol.com
Subject: Re: TS MOMENT FRAME
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org


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I have used TS sections (now called HSS iI guess some contractors got
cunfused with TS for Timberstrand and used a structural tube section!!!!).
I have used for an  one -story "ordinary  frame" ONLY and had no objection
from the Building Dept.  I used Full PEn welds at the 45 deg joints.
Hope this helps.

Antonio S. Luisoni
Consulting S.E.
Granada Hills, CA

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B><I>I have used TS sections (now
called HSS iI guess some contractors got cunfused with TS for Timberstrand
and used a structural tube section!!!!).<BR>
I have used for an&nbsp; one -story "ordinary&nbsp; frame" ONLY and had no
objection from the Building Dept.&nbsp; I used Full PEn welds at the 45 deg
joints.<BR>
Hope this helps.<BR>
<BR>
Antonio S. Luisoni<BR>
Consulting S.E.<BR>
Granada Hills, CA </B></I></FONT></HTML>

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